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Shanling M0 - Nano size, touch screen, LDAC & aptX BT, USB DAC/transport and ESS Sabre ES9218P, FW 3.1

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by Shanling, Mar 16, 2018.
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  1. keenids
    With LIST PLAY, I mean the setting in the menu PLAY MODE
    Here there are 4 options: LIST PLAY, REPEAT TRACK, SHUFFLE and REPEAT ALL.
    Gapless play only works when LIST PLAY is selected in the menu (PLAYBACK>PLAY MODE) - AND when an "Album" is selected in the menu MY MUSIC.
    (When you "Select All" in the menu PLAYBACK, and choose LIST PLAY in the menu PLAYBACK, gapless still does not work.
    Gapless also does not work when you do select an album in the My Music menu, but put PLAYBACK on SHUFFLE.)

    Maybe the developers thought that a 20ms fade would not be audible, but it is - leave alone the 35ms gap between mp3 files in Gapless play...
    The reason that the fades are so prominent, especially at the end of files, is that part of the file (300-500 ms) is actually cut off on top of that. This often results in a fade out when the music is still playing.
    But exactly the same fade is occurring at the beginning of all files when played in normal mode. When there is no silence at all at the start of the file, this is also audible.

    Note that fading (and cutting off half a second) does not occur when Gapless works. Unfortunately it only works with very specific settings.
    Hence my recommendation to make GAPLESS work with all selections and play settings.
    It would not harm anyone, since GAPLESS can always be turned off if it has undesired effects.
    Right now, normal play has undesired effects, which cannot be undone by turning on GAPLESS.

    Thanks for your remarks, especially about playing from a folder. I did not check that.
    I also did not check the performance when REPEAT ALL is selected - I will do that and come back with thte results.
     
  2. keenids
    In normal (non-gapless) play mode, roughly half a second is cut off from the ending of every file during playback. Also there is a short fade in at the beginning and a short fade out at the end.
    This means that a lot of files in my music library are actually cut off and faded out before the music ends.
    I noticed that this does not happen when Gapless Play works - but it only works with very specific settings (not when you select anything other than 1 album, and not when you play in any other mode than LIST PLAY (e.g. Shuffle)

    I thought this too, but it appears not to be true:
    If you play an album GAPLESS in LIST PLAY mode, and the album is in .WAV or .FLAC format, there are no gaps, no cut-offs and no fades.
    If you play an album GAPLESS in LIST PLAY mode and the album is in mp3 format, there are 35ms gaps, a cut-off of 100ms and no fades
    In any other setting, there are 300-500ms gaps, a cut-off of 300-500ms, and fades at the end and beginning of every file.

    You are very welcome! I thought, if we want Shanling to do something, we should know what we are actually asking for.
     
  3. technobear
    I don't see how it could possibly be helpful to have gapless playback in SHUFFLE mode or REPEAT TRACK mode. That could lead to some very jarring sound changes and nasty noises.
     
  4. roladyzator
    To be honest the faulty gapless on MP3 didn't bother me much.
    IMO if there is a technical limitation that prevents true gapless on mp3 on M0, I'd rather have a small pause but no cutoff at the end of the file. Sometimes music matters to the last millisecond of the track :)
     
    keenids and DBaldock9 like this.
  5. Adnan87
    My M0's touchscreen has completely stopped responding. Volume control, sounds and double/triple clicks are working. I was listening to a hi-res track (24/96khz) and the battery went down from one bar to the red bar and since then the touchscreen has been unresponsive despite restarting/factory resetting a hundred times or so. I recently upgraded to the 3.1 firmware a couple of days earlier. I doubt it is a hardware issue as I did not drop/misuse it at any point. Is this the memory leak issue alluded to before? If so, this is probably the most severest case of it. Kindly help as the M0 is as good as a brick right now. If the touchscreen just quit working, I am quite dissapointed in the Shanling QC as the thing barely lasted a year or so. Was thinking of upgrading to the M2X but this might just push me back into getting a Fiio.
     
    keenids likes this.
  6. Nailgun
    I need both, but depends on the music one listens to. For exemple I listen to a lot of emotional /Ambient music
    Exemple: Sigur Ros, Cinematic orchestra, Massive Attack, or more "classical" like Pink Floyd or progressive music, where interrupting the flow, even with a small glitch, could be a problem. but also chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Faithless, where a jump in the rhythm will also ruin the flow. I also like to listen into the dark with my mind fully on the music, so that's why I was seeking for the perfect player (with my phone I had no gapless problems at all with poweramp, but there were random hiccups and a bearable background noise)so yeah, the no cutoff and 0ms gap (so no gap) for me. I bought on Amazon so I have another year before returning the player back (I'm giving it hope, with others brands I returned immediately)
     
    keenids likes this.
  7. Shanling
    Thanks for posting this. I simply need to somehow kick our software team to finally get to this.

    More like software problem this can be something about connection of the display cable.

    If your are confident enough, you can open unit and check the connection.

    Or of course if your unit is still within warranty, reach out to seller for repair / replacement.

    And if it's out of warranty, spare screen can be purchased for 20USD from Shenzhen Audio https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/shanl...-bettery-for-m0-hifi-portable-mp3-player.html
     
    Shanling Have any question about our players? Just PM me or send me email. Stay updated on Shanling at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Shanling-Audio-603230783166845/ https://twitter.com/ShanlingAudio https://www.instagram.com/shanlingaudio/ http://en.shanling.com/ frankie@shanling.com
    DBaldock9 likes this.
  8. Rafs
    Interesting link, that one. It has the wheel listed in all colors. So I could buy a blue wheel and install it in my silver M0 doing my own little 'Special edition'?
    Do you happen to have instructions on changing the wheel? If you have a complete service manual that could do as well.
     
  9. keenids
    I tested it, by pressing GAPLESS on/off repeatedly during shuffle playback. Tracks are played completely when you do this, without being shortened or faded in/out. I admit that this is a workaround solution for the problems in normal playback Solving the real problem by redesigning the transition coding would be better, of course, but I suspect that is a lot of work. So it has actrually nothing to do with gapless playback.

    Like you, I have no problems with the tiny 35ms gaps that occur in gapless play with mp3 files. I have no problem with gapless at all. I have a problem with normal playback, cutting off and fading tracks from gapless albums, that have no silence at beginning and end of the sound. In my opinion, enabling gapless playback in all modes would solve this problem for me. And it is probably an easy thing to program. Since it can be switched off at all time, it would not cause anyone harm.
     
  10. Nailgun
    I partially agree. Any audible jump, glitch whatever should be removed or it can't be called hi fi audio. If it can be heared, and it shouldn't be there, it's an error, a problem that must be resolved. As for nor I'm ripping again my favorite albums, so FLAC play will go smooth, but I don't have enough storage space for everything in flac and it shouldn't be such an hassle. I thank @Shanling because he/she is always ready to answer any question and it brings customer support to a very high level. I hope software team will be able to work on this. I repeated this so many times I will shut up again now :p it's just that I want to like this player but I can't for now :frowning2:
     
    keenids likes this.
  11. filbert
    I’ve never really understood gapless playback. Maybe it’s because I mostly listen to classical music but, even with other music, I expect a space between items. Am I missing something?
     
  12. endgame4
    Yes, obviously.

    There is a lot of music where tracks follow smoothly after the previous track. Any concert for instance would qualify.
     
    roebeet likes this.
  13. keenids
    Like Nailgun said: many EDM, IDM and other electronic music like soundscapes require gapless playback. And endgame states correctly that live recordings with several pieces on them also do.
    Almost any album by Frank Zappa, many progrock and symphonic rock albums, concept albums.
    But last and certainly not least: classical music. I listen to the ballets of Igor Stravinsky a lot - the compositions consist of separate parts, but they are often performed in one continuous movement.
    If the recording has markers (CD-tracks) for the separate parts, the piece will be cut up in several files. You need to play those back gaplessly to hear the music right.

    But the discussion tends to get confused by the word gapless.
    At the risk of stating the Obvious, let me say once more that we deal with 2 separate problems here:

    1. Gapless play works imperfectly with mp3 files. There are still tiny, but audible 35ms long gaps between the parts. (with FLAC and WAV gapless works perfectly)
    2. In normal (non-gapless) playback there is a problem with music being cut off before the real ending, and fading at the beginnings and ends.

    Right now, gapless playback only works when playing an entire album in list play mode, and is disabled in other situations even if the gapless button is ON.

    Whether problem #2 could be solved by making it possible to use gapless play in any mode, has still to be tested.
    Problem #1 can only be solved by altering the software that makes the transitions between files.

    These 2 issues should be dealt with separately.

    @Nailgun: I am going to make a fake album with mixed WAV, mp3 and FLAC files in it, and play it back with gapless on. I will get back with the results. If you are right, this should produce glitches, hickups and/or jumps. I hope you are wrong (no offence!) but i am afraid you might be right.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  14. Shanling
    Yes, you can buy any wheel and change it yourself, if you are confident enough(since it includes removing battery, that's glued to body).

    How to open M0 is shown in that link, it takes you all the way up to removing inner mechanism of wheel.
    Then you are left with metal wheel, that's fitted into plastic collar, that keeps it in frame. Push it out of frame and then you can replace it with new one, with new wheel.
     
    Shanling Have any question about our players? Just PM me or send me email. Stay updated on Shanling at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Shanling-Audio-603230783166845/ https://twitter.com/ShanlingAudio https://www.instagram.com/shanlingaudio/ http://en.shanling.com/ frankie@shanling.com
    DBaldock9 likes this.
  15. Rafs
    Cool, I'm super tempted to do it. I'm comfortable with disassembling things, that's no problem.
    Since the battery is glued I think I'll hold on to it for now. Then, When battery starts decaying I'll replace it and mod the wheel.
    Thanks for the info!
     
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