[P3108]

So the same goes for earphones then right, they don't need to be Hi- Res certified and 40khz?...

 

[P3108]

So same goes for earphones then, they don't need to be Hi-Res Certified and 40khz right?

 

[SilverEars]

All we care about is up to 20khz, but Harmon curve which is popular headphone compensation curve to translate to avg impression of speaker flat has a transitions the raises and dips.

 

[abitdeef]

Ignore me I've got the hang of it now.

What DSD mode are you using? I’m using DOP and they’re gapless with no clicks. Although the track time if off (Shanling knows about this).

Also if you don’t know you can get back to the main menu by holding the screen for a couple of seconds. Helps for changing settings faster.

 

[abitdeef]

So same goes for earphones then, they don't need to be Hi-Res Certified and 40khz right?

Exactly, no headphone’s response is ruler flat anyways and over the threshold of human hearing it doesn’t really matter. Ideally you want a flat as possible response from the dap so as not to ‘colour’ the sound- you can do that with different iems/cans and dsp/Eq effects.

Two people have measured the M0’s frequency response on here and one was ruler flat and the other had a substantial boost in the upper frequencies.

My ears like what I hear, so....

 

[P3108]

What DSD mode are you using? I’m using DOP and they’re gapless with no clicks. Although the track time if off (Shanling knows about this).

Also if you don’t know you can get back to the main menu by holding the screen for a couple of seconds. Helps for changing settings faster.

Interesting question. I assumed the M0 is using native decoding of DSD files as the DAC is capable and the marketing bumf says it does native. It also says it can do DoP.

I also assumed that the DoP/D2P setting is related to using the M0 as a transport not a player?...

 

[SilverEars]

I think the only feature that would make this player even better (lots of features already) would be the option to connect to the computer via usb and use as a bluetooth transmitter.

If I'm not mistaken, this feature is not available currently, correct? If not, is there a possibility that it would be implemented in a future update?

This feature would make possible to stream bluetooth wireless from the computer. I'm actually considering a purchase of Sony 1000XM3 noise cancelling bluetooth headphone with aptX HD and LDAC connections. It would be great if this little guy can stream the music to the headphone as a bluetooth DAC from a computer.

With so many features and size, it would be a very applicable player to take on the go for all that you can do with it. You can use it during commute, and then connect it to the computer at work, and use it as DAC (or if they can, have bluetooth transmit to your wireless headphones from the work computer).

 

[Shanling]

Hi. Just got an M0.

I have two queries that hopefully someone can clear up for me please:-

-M0 has Hi-Res Certification but only has frequency response of 20hz-20khz whereas Certification implies it should be up to 40khz minimum. Am I missing something here? I'm not after a debate on Hi-Res merit please.

-The DSD album that I've put on there has clicks or pops before each track starts. They are DSF files made from an ISO back in 2015 and I don't recall the clicks or pops being an issue back then with my Fiio X3ii but I sold it and haven't done DSD since. Is this a known issue with the M0 or is it my files?

It's officially certified as Hi-Res player be the Japan Audio Society.
Listing of 20 hz to 20 kHz is just our specification, given by the limits of our measuring gear in our offices.

Your DSD is 64 or 128? And using DOP or D2P?

So the same goes for earphones then right, they don't need to be Hi- Res certified and 40khz?...

Certification for earphones is different from certification of the players.

 

[P3108]

It's officially certified as Hi-Res player be the Japan Audio Society.
Listing of 20 hz to 20 kHz is just our specification, given by the limits of our measuring gear in our offices.

Your DSD is 64 or 128? And using DOP or D2P?




Certification for earphones is different from certification of the players.

Can you explain to me whether the M0 is using the native DSD decoding ability of the es9281p or if you are using either DoP (DSD over PCM) or D2P (conversion to PCM) to send to the DAC part of the player? My understanding of your marketing information on the M0 is that it is capable of and uses native DSD decoding i.e. neither DoP or D2P?

 

[P3108]

So does the Society test the player to certify it then? The amplifier stage should technically be capable of 40khz for them to certify this player.

 

[P3108]

It's officially certified as Hi-Res player be the Japan Audio Society.
Listing of 20 hz to 20 kHz is just our specification, given by the limits of our measuring gear in our offices.

Your DSD is 64 or 128? And using DOP or D2P?




Certification for earphones is different from certification of the players.

What equipment do you use to test your Hi-Res Certified IEMs that you sell and do they do the required 40khz technical specification that the Society stipulates?

 

[Shanling]

Can you explain to me whether the M0 is using the native DSD decoding ability of the es9281p or if you are using either DoP (DSD over PCM) or D2P (conversion to PCM) to send to the DAC part of the player? My understanding of your marketing information on the M0 is that it is capable of and uses native DSD decoding i.e. neither DoP or D2P?

DoP and native only talks about the transport of data, DAC itself then decodes full DSD, no matter which of these two transports were used.
Here is one example describing difference between native and DoP transport https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

So does the Society test the player to certify it then? The amplifier stage should technically be capable of 40khz for them to certify this player.

You can read more about certification of devices and evaluation process at website of Japan Audio Society: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en

Also, on ES9218P, amplifier circuit is part of the chip, so you can reach out to ESS with your questions regarding technical capabilities of the amplifier part.

What equipment do you use to test your Hi-Res Certified IEMs that you sell and do they do the required 40khz technical specification that the Society stipulates?

Drivers in our IEMs are tested by driver manufacturers. For example, our ME500 is using balanced armatures from Knowles, who developed special new measurement for such high frequencies, because older measurement standards are not set for such a high measurements.
They have white paper on it, should be somewhere on website of Knowles, but I can't find it now.

 

[P3108]

DoP and native only talks about the transport of data, DAC itself then decodes full DSD, no matter which of these two transports were used.
Here is one example describing difference between native and DoP transport https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

Also, ES9218p doesn't support native transport.



You can read more about certification of devices and evaluation process at website of Japan Audio Society: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en

Also, on ES9218P, amplifier circuit is part of the chip, so you can reach out to ESS with your questions regarding technical capabilities of the amplifier part.



Drivers in our IEMs are tested by driver manufacturers. For example, our ME500 is using balanced armatures from Knowles, who developed special new measurement for such high frequencies, because older measurement standards are not set for such a high measurements.
They have white paper on it, should be somewhere on website of Knowles, but I can't find it now.

Thanks for the really useful answers here, it is much appreciated. So I think I'm understanding that the ES9218p chip is Hi-Res certified and you have just implemented that chip in your devide.

Clearly the chip is also DSD DoP capable as you have implemented that too. On the ES website they state that it is capable of DSD 256 but that requires 768khz PCM over DoP so I don't think something is quite right here. Either it does support native DSD at 256 or they are incorrect as 256 over DoP needs 768khz and the chip is 384khz. So I can see how the chip maxes out at DSD 128 over DoP (384khz) and not DSD 256 (768khz).

Also good to understand that you are implementing a drive that is already Hi-Res certified. It really helps to understand how the process works. I see that your Hi-Res certified IEMs do 20hz-40khz.

In conclusion on the frequency debate, the ES9218P chip must do 40khz in the amplifier stage to get its Hi-Res certification.

 

[P3108]

DoP and native only talks about the transport of data, DAC itself then decodes full DSD, no matter which of these two transports were used.
Here is one example describing difference between native and DoP transport https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

Also, ES9218p doesn't support native transport.



You can read more about certification of devices and evaluation process at website of Japan Audio Society: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en

Also, on ES9218P, amplifier circuit is part of the chip, so you can reach out to ESS with your questions regarding technical capabilities of the amplifier part.



Drivers in our IEMs are tested by driver manufacturers. For example, our ME500 is using balanced armatures from Knowles, who developed special new measurement for such high frequencies, because older measurement standards are not set for such a high measurements.
They have white paper on it, should be somewhere on website of Knowles, but I can't find it now.

Oh and the clicks and pops are there whether you select DoP or D2P. Gain is higher with DoP and sounds nicer to my ears but that might just be the gain. I assume that the D2P conversion rate settings are predetermined in the chip? Have you any idea at what PCM rate it is converting to? I am listening to DSD 64 DSF files too if that helps.

 

[P3108]

DoP and native only talks about the transport of data, DAC itself then decodes full DSD, no matter which of these two transports were used.
Here is one example describing difference between native and DoP transport https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

Also, ES9218p doesn't support native transport.



You can read more about certification of devices and evaluation process at website of Japan Audio Society: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en

Also, on ES9218P, amplifier circuit is part of the chip, so you can reach out to ESS with your questions regarding technical capabilities of the amplifier part.



Drivers in our IEMs are tested by driver manufacturers. For example, our ME500 is using balanced armatures from Knowles, who developed special new measurement for such high frequencies, because older measurement standards are not set for such a high measurements.
They have white paper on it, should be somewhere on website of Knowles, but I can't find it now.

The more I am reading, I am understanding that the ES9218P does do DSD 256 natively so it could be/have been implemented to use DSD native rather than DoP in the M0.