[silkymaverick]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. Got started on Senns young. HD202, HD205, then the first pair I bought myself were the HD598 in ivory running a FiiO Alpen 2 E17K. Today, I’m running the 660s on a BTR5 with a balanced cable.

So always loved my Senns but I’d say I really fell in love with my 598s, that wide sound stage and warmth…so comfortable, all day listening. I always had my eye on the 650s but never pulled the trigger as then I’d be spending on a full stack to drive them. When the 660s came out with the lower impedance, it was a no brainer with a 30% off student discount through Sennheiser.

I have some gripes with the 660S…don’t get me wrong, they are phenomenally good headphones but there’s just something off about them to me at least. I would say they’re more technical and neutral sounding than the 598s, but I just don’t have as much fun with them. Unfortunately, I can’t go back to the 598s as the replacement earcups suck compared to the originals and the detail of the 660S blow them out of the water. I find the 660S are not very consistent, they excel well with very specific genres. Mids and highs are definitely more forward, the bass is great for jazz and rock, really anything instrumental however they seem to fail me with more modern music. It’s influenced my musical tastes as I now avoid songs I used to enjoy. Definitely a bit smaller sound stage as well.

The highs are absolutely incredible, but frankly, it can get pretty fatiguing and shrill. Especially with cymbals and high hats, which technically I think are on point and crisp but like I said, fatiguing. Also the sound stage and separation of instruments is so different on certain songs. For example, Life Worth Living by Laurel, sounds great on my 2.1 Polk stereo setup and my premium BMW speakers but on the 660S, the prominence of certain musical elements is totally different to the point it doesn’t even sound like the same song. A lot of the music I listen to is very atmospheric and creates a…well a vibe or an energy I suppose. Difficult to quantify. Hm…I suppose to me it’s the difference between the warmth of the 598s and the more neutral sounding 660S. Like how if you listen to Depeche Mode, you can really feel that heroin haze and get into that headspace. It’s just missing for me.

Hoping for a recommendation to resolve this. Perhaps I’m just getting bored of Senns or maybe I need a better DAC and Amp. I’ve considered the Darkvoice before but have never pulled the trigger. Perhaps that would add that warmth. But then again - maybe it’s the lack of bass that’s the issue. And to clarify, I’m not a bass head or anything like that - I would just like something that fills in the gaps where the 660S doesn’t seem to excel.

Edit: lost my train of thought. But yeah I’d said the 660s are a little fast for my liking as well. I’m thinking I want something with a little more warmth and more balance bass. I’m considering Beyerdynamics though the new HIFIMAN Edition XS caught my eye. I’ve always wanted to try planar magnetic headphones and reviews have been great so far it seems. I’d be open to trying something new and interested.

Edit Again: Listened to Thank You by Dido on my 660s and gives me the goosebumps. Exactly why I can’t get rid of these either. Don’t want to understate how great these are.

 

[earmonger]

In the same price range as the Senns are the ATH-R70X, which were reportedly conceived by the designer as the Senns only better.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/6/17535412/audio-technica-r70x-review-professional-headphones

I totally love mine. Comfortable, transparent, soundstage. Believe me they have bass (claimed down to 5hz, who knows). I use mine with the VE Megatron, $56 shipped, but they sound nearly as good out of the Mac's headphone jack.

https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=63

You can ignore me and look at the zillions of reviews online, at Head-fi and elsewhere, since they were introduced in the 2010s. You can do a 30-day trial at the lowest price here.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/audio_technica_ath_r70_x.htm

Look at an unboxing video to open so you don't rip anything; the outer packaging is a little odd.

 

[silkymaverick]

Well looks like I answered my own question…the new and unreleased HD660S2. These appear to address my gripes directly, how convenient. From the Amazon description:

Every high-end headphone has its own unique personality. What if you could only own one?

Ever felt goosebumps from sound so real, it was as if the source was in the room with you? The non-fatiguing HD 660S2 gives people who love music an intimate way to connect more deeply with their favorite songs and artists. Breathtaking resolution and precision take you closer than ever to instruments and vocalists. Yet the sound is natural and balanced, never harsh or brash.

This warm, inviting signature combined with extended sub bass makes listening uniquely pleasant and rewarding. And with comfort this good, it practically begs you to keep going for endless sessions. That’s how HD 660S2 combines the best of many worlds to give you an intimate experience you won’t want to live without.

Sub bass expands the entire sound.​

Double the sub bass heightens your listening experience.

Traditionally, audiophiles don’t get too excited about sub bass. It can easily get sloppy or boomy and become a distraction. And that’s a shame — because there’s so much more to experience here than just the gut punch of a kick drum. Did you know the low B of a 5-string bass vibrates at 30.9 Hz? Or that the lowest note on a concert piano comes in at 27.5 Hz? And of course, extended sub bass makes bass-heavy genres sound fantastic, too.

And that’s the magic trick here. In doubling the sound pressure at the very lowest frequencies, we’ve nevertheless retained extraordinary precision and balance throughout the sub bass, mid-bass, and beyond. Most impressive is how this affects the listening experience. Extension on the low end changes everything — by creating more space for the sound. Against a deeper backdrop, highs feel more brilliant, the soundstage deeper, emotions stronger.

 

[LFC_SL]

With hindsight if you wanted to maintain the Sennheiser midrange the upgrade path was the HD580, HD600 or HD650, rather than the HD598 or HD660 gen 1. Buy, listen and enjoy and forget all other similarly priced side grades. If there was an itch still to scratch then look to the four figure high end

 

[tomb]

With hindsight if you wanted to maintain the Sennheiser midrange the upgrade path was the HD580, HD600 or HD650, rather than the HD598 or HD660 gen 1. Buy, listen and enjoy and forget all other similarly priced side grades. If there was an itch still to scratch then look to the four figure high end

^ This!

He's absolutely correct. What you are finding is the difference (and deficiency) in the 660 vs. the genuine HD650. You don't get something for nothing. Yes, the impedance is lower with the 660, but there are consequences. The tonality with the HD650 is perfection.

The (Mass)Drop HD6XX is still the 2nd best buy in all of headphones (the Koss KSC75 is #1). I'm not sure (Mass)Drop goes to the effort of matching drivers and some other little tricks that Sennheiser does with the original HD650, but it's a good alternative if you're cash-strapped and is otherwise totally identical to the HD650.

 

[silkymaverick]

^ This!

He's absolutely correct. What you are finding is the difference (and deficiency) in the 660 vs. the genuine HD650. You don't get something for nothing. Yes, the impedance is lower with the 660, but there are consequences. The tonality with the HD650 is perfection.

The (Mass)Drop HD6XX is still the 2nd best buy in all of headphones (the Koss KSC75 is #1). I'm not sure (Mass)Drop goes to the effort of matching drivers and some other little tricks that Sennheiser does with the original HD650, but it's a good alternative if you're cash-strapped and is otherwise totally identical to the HD650.

Hmm…interesting. Maybe I’ll do the HD6XX for now and then the 660S2 once the price comes down and there are more reviews. I always figured I’d end up with a schiit stack but open to recommendations unless the BTR5 is sufficient. It’s been a hot minute since I’ve put in some real research.

I thought the 6XX was the 600, not the 650. It’s been a minute. Is there actually any difference between the 650 and the 6XX? I’ve read some people on the forum say they got rid of their 650 in favor of modded 6XX.

 

[552609]

I would say...what's your budget?

 

[LFC_SL]

I thought the 6XX was the 600, not the 650.

The 6XX is the drop version of the HD650. Both the HD600 and HD650 are worth demoing side by side

 

[tomb]

Hmm…interesting. Maybe I’ll do the HD6XX for now and then the 660S2 once the price comes down and there are more reviews. I always figured I’d end up with a schiit stack but open to recommendations unless the BTR5 is sufficient. It’s been a hot minute since I’ve put in some real research.

I thought the 6XX was the 600, not the 650. It’s been a minute. Is there actually any difference between the 650 and the 6XX? I’ve read some people on the forum say they got rid of their 650 in favor of modded 6XX.

Once again, LFC_SL answered your question.

I would add, though, that while demoing the 600 and 650 side by side is worthwhile, my personal opinion is that there's no comparison when you know what to listen for.

The way the history and improvements transpired are as follows:
HD580 - plastic grilled back, this caused some distortion and artifacts on high-midrange sustained vocals.
HD600 - same headphone as the HD580, with perforated metal grilles instead of plastic. this removed some of the "crunch" distortion in the 580, but the 600 had a treble peak that also resulted in some harshness and grating under certain music and conditions.
HD650 - All of the above was essentially removed. As a result, it's easily the most refined of the three units and the tonality is practically perfect. Some criticize it for being laid back and a bit mid-bass centric. IMHO, that's usually a symptom of the amplification used. All three headphones are notable for increasing improvements with increasing quality in amplifiers. They're really something that can grow with you.

The difference with the Drop 6XX (mentioned before), is that they may not go through extensive driver matching when they build those headphones, whereas Sennheiser does that with the 650. It's not like there's a great variance anyway, though, and keep in mind - even the deficiencies I noted above are all in the margins. These are all great, world-class headphones - even today.

 

[silkymaverick]

I would say...what's your budget?

Budget is about 500 give or take just for cans. Probably looking to upgrade my stack as well. Like I said, just running a modest BTR5 with a balanced cable. I do enjoy the portability. Tube amps sound like they’d be fun. Never heard them before though.

 

[silkymaverick]

Once again, LFC_SL answered your question.

I would add, though, that while demoing the 600 and 650 side by side is worthwhile, my personal opinion is that there's no comparison when you know what to listen for.

The way the history and improvements transpired are as follows:
HD580 - plastic grilled back, this caused some distortion and artifacts on high-midrange sustained vocals.
HD600 - same headphone as the HD580, with perforated metal grilles instead of plastic. this removed some of the "crunch" distortion in the 580, but the 600 had a treble peak that also resulted in some harshness and grating under certain music and conditions.
HD650 - All of the above was essentially removed. As a result, it's easily the most refined of the three units and the tonality is practically perfect. Some criticize it for being laid back and a bit mid-bass centric. IMHO, that's usually a symptom of the amplification used. All three headphones are notable for increasing improvements with increasing quality in amplifiers. They're really something that can grow with you.

The difference with the Drop 6XX (mentioned before), is that they may not go through extensive driver matching when they build those headphones, whereas Sennheiser does that with the 650. It's not like there's a great variance anyway, though, and keep in mind - even the deficiencies I noted above are all in the margins. These are all great, world-class headphones - even today.

Appreciate the detail. Sounds like the 650 may be the way. Plus I could go 6XX and spend the rest on some equipment.

 

[552609]

Budget is about 500 give or take just for cans. Probably looking to upgrade my stack as well. Like I said, just running a modest BTR5 with a balanced cable. I do enjoy the portability. Tube amps sound like they’d be fun. Never heard them before though.

XDuoo makes a decent all-in-one tube amp that won't cost an arm and a leg. I'm not sure you'll get much better than the 660s in that price range. The Hifiman XS is a good option, the Beyer DT1990's are well received also. Audio46 is in New York - I'd recommend going into their store since you're in New York also and trying out headphones to see what you like.