[LanceX]

Hi, this is my first post here even though I've been a bit of a lurker. I've been looking for that one headphone that could do no wrong with the music that I listen to. I own the Sennheiser HD555 and have been pretty content with it until I listened to my friend's new dt880. It was like a whole new window to the music was opened. The clarity and detail was astounding to say the least and my HD555  could not compete in any way technically. However, I am very sensitive to bright treble and while my Sennheisers are a tad too bright for my liking, the dt880 easily passed over my brightness threshold. Guess Grados aren't for me

. I also found at the time that I preferred the comfort of my Sennheisers over the more luxurious dt880. This brought me to the conclusion that I was destined to buy some higher-end Sennheisers. 
 
Because I like my HD555, but would still prefer a darker tone with more detail, I have decided that the two best headphones for me to consider are the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. My budget is $300 with a little stretch room. I have a vastly powerful amp so that should not be an issue. Which one of these two is more versatile (especially for solo and orchestral classical works with piano and some classic and hard rock)? Which one would help me reach closer to the detail levels of the dt880? I am afraid the HD650 will blur orchestral passages. I think I actually like the look of the HD600 better, but is the build quality very weak in comparison? Most importantly, which of these has a more accurate tonality and timbre? This is something that I am very sensitive too and probably has to do with the fact that I've spent much of my life around orchestras and especially pianos. I welcome any applicable advice that you would be willing to share.
 
   

 

[extrabigmehdi]

The hd650 is darker than the hd600, while the hd600 is more neutral.
These are generalities, but I'd pick the hd600 is my main interest is classical music.

 

[Gwarmi]

Build quality slightly favors the HD650 with the new shiny black plastic inner shell versus dull for the HD600.
 
I think the HD650 is the can for you, the HD600 is more neutral but this may still be a tad too bright for
your sensitive treble needs.
 
"I have a vastly powerful amp so that should not be an issue."
 
Do you care to share what that amp may be? Because if it's a lowly receiver then you could be
disappointed with speed and PRAT from either can if it does not meet their demands.

 

[hitmanx]

What a coincidence, I've been through HD555 and DT880 myself, and my experience is same as yours. I upgraded to the DT880 from HD555, however I can not stand for its bright treble and it prevented me from long-time listening. Also the lovely mids is gone on DT880.
 
So I gave it up, and upgraded to the HD650, and there it is, the familiar Sennheiser sound is back. But this time, it is with wider sound stage and more details. So I think you should definitely give HD650 a go.

 

[dirkpitt45]

I've got both at the moment still trying to decide which one I like more. I'm pretty sure my HD600 is the older "darker" version though, since it doesn't have the silverish foam like the HD650s. I don't listen to much classical, just the occasional song now and then that pops up in my play-lists. I used a fubar II dac and a bottlehead crack for most of my listening, but now I'm just using an NFB-12.
 
But the differences between the hd650 and hd600 are pretty small, at least to me. The 650s definitely have more bass, and a warmer sound signature. And because of that they feel a bit more closed in, heavier and not as airy as the hd600s. Treble wise, I found the Alessandro MS1s to be extremely bright (to the point that I couldn't listen to them for more than a few songs) compared to the hd600s. It did take me a while to get used to the Hd600s, but after a few weeks I feel in love with them. They do everything extremely well, acoustic guitars (like city and colour) sound fantastic, along with pianos. They're also very clear, I didn't experience any "veil" at all.
 
The 650s on the other hand, also do everything extremely well, but with more bass. And as I mentioned earlier they do sound a bit more closed in and intimate. Which isn't really a bad thing, they're great at immersing you in music. Also very laid back and smooth, not that the hd600s aren't, but it's accentuated a bit more because of the extra bass. I'd say the Hd650s are like being a part of something, while the Hd600s are like being slightly removed, letting you pick things out and analyze more easily.   
 
Build quality wise they're identical. I don't see how shiny or dull plastic is revelatory to something's sturdyness. They both fit more or less the same, with the hd600s being slightly looser. But that could be due to the fact that my pair is pretty old. While the hd650s clamped really hard when I first got them (they're essentially brand new), to the point where I had to leave them over some books overnight to stretch them a bit. Now they're fine, but I still kinda like how the hd600s fit better, the top foam is more comfortable. 
 
If you really want clarity then I'd go with the hd600s. They'll offer a lighter, while still laid back, sound compared to the hd650s. I was in the same position, I really don't like treble happy cans, they're painful after a while and I listen to music for long periods of time. Personally I think I'll be keeping the hd650s, but I listen to a lot of edm, trance, dnb, instead of classical. If I did listen to more classical and less bassy music, then I would for sure go with the hd600s.

 

[LanceX]

My amp is an old 80's Pioneer receiver. It looked and sounded like a quality product from its last use about 2 weeks ago. I intend to buy myself the fiio E10 soon to use as a dac and as an amp when I'm away from home. The vibe I'm sensing is that I can't really go wrong with either product. I have a few more questions to ask so that I can finalize my decision.
 
1. Does the HD600 truly offer more details? I ask this concerning my modest gear. I may eventually build a bottlehead crack, but I don't intend to spend >$300 on an amp or dac, much less thousands.
 
2. Is the "new" 600 much brighter than the 650? Is it still quite dark in tonality compared to the 595?
 
3. Does the 600 provide a better "critical" listening experience? While I listen to music for leisure mostly, I do intend to occasionally use these headphones to analyze complex orchestral works for school or on my own.

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

My amp is an old 80's Pioneer receiver. It looked and sounded like a quality product from its last use about 2 weeks ago. I intend to buy myself the fiio E10 soon to use as a dac and as an amp when I'm away from home. The vibe I'm sensing is that I can't really go wrong with either product. I have a few more questions to ask so that I can finalize my decision.
 
1. Does the HD600 truly offer more details? I ask this concerning my modest gear. I may eventually build a bottlehead crack, but I don't intend to spend >$300 on an amp or dac, much less thousands.
 
2. Is the "new" 600 much brighter than the 650? Is it still quite dark in tonality compared to the 595?
 
3. Does the 600 provide a better "critical" listening experience? While I listen to music for leisure mostly, I do intend to occasionally use these headphones to analyze complex orchestral works for school or on my own.

These specifications for the Fiio E10 will not drive either the HD600 or HD650 I'm afraid :-
 
The figures suggest that at a theoretical 300ohms the Fiio E10 will provide about 20mW or so. Simply not enough.
It will be fine as an DAC though. I would suggest the E9 and E7 instead.
 
 
[size=small]Specification[/size]
 
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size]Power supply: Standard MINI USB port
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size][/size]Output Power: 150mW(32Ω)
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Sample rate USB decoder: 96KHz/24 Bit （Maximum support）
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Coaxial output: Stereo PCM
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Frequency response: 20Hz~20KHz
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Suitable Headphone Impedance: 16Ω~300Ω
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Size: 79mm×49.1mm×21mm
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Weight: 82g
 

 

[dirkpitt45]

1. I wouldn't say the hd600s offers more detail, might just be easier to pick out the finer points since there's less mid-bass.
 
2. Can't help with that, haven't heard either.
 
3. I would say yes, it offers a slightly better "critical" listening experience due to the aforementioned decrease in bass.  

 

[LanceX]

Quote:

These specifications for the Fiio E10 will not drive either the HD600 or HD650 I'm afraid :-
 
The figures suggest that at a theoretical 300ohms the Fiio E10 will provide about 20mW or so. Simply not enough.
It will be fine as an DAC though. I would suggest the E9 and E7 instead.
 
 
[size=small]Specification[/size]
 
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size]Power supply: Standard MINI USB port
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size][/size]Output Power: 150mW(32Ω)
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Sample rate USB decoder: 96KHz/24 Bit （Maximum support）
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Coaxial output: Stereo PCM
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Frequency response: 20Hz~20KHz
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Suitable Headphone Impedance: 16Ω~300Ω
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Size: 79mm×49.1mm×21mm
[size=8pt][size=8pt]● [/size][/size]Weight: 82g
 

 
I know that the E10 is not ideal for powering either of these headphones by themselves. I will mainly use it as a dac and only as an amp when I can't be bothered to take an amp with me which will only be occasionally. I think the E10 would still be a vast improvement over a stock soundcard, correct? On this note, would the HD650 be vastly underpowered by the E10 in comparison to the HD600? Even though they share the same impedance, many people say that the HD650 is harder to drive.
 
 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

 
I know that the E10 is not ideal for powering either of these headphones by themselves. I will mainly use it as a dac and only as an amp when I can't be bothered to take an amp with me which will only be occasionally. I think the E10 would still be a vast improvement over a stock soundcard, correct? On this note, would the HD650 be vastly underpowered by the E10 in comparison to the HD600? Even though they share the same impedance, many people say that the HD650 is harder to drive.
 
 

This is partially true ~ while both HD600 and HD650 share the same impedance, the HD650 has sensitivity rating of 103dB at 1khz while
the HD600 has a sensitivity rating of 112Db at 1khz.
 
It will make a small difference but the reality remains ~ the E10 cannot control either of those drivers (HD600/HD650) properly.
This is an issue outside of just the amount of volume, this lack of control will manifest itself with lack of bass, clarity, detail
retrieval as the headphones simply do not operate as Sennheiser intended.
 
The E10 will provide a cleaner sound than a noisy stock soundcard and should provide a bit more amplification but the situation will still
be far from ideal.
 
If a portable amp is crucial for your needs then I would look at something like Ray Samuels Hornet
 
http://raysamuelsaudio.com/products/hornet
 
It's not cheap at $370 but nothing with full sized Hi Fi cans in portable audio is. But it will do them justice.

 

[LanceX]

I think I am leaning toward the hd650 as long as I catch a decent deal on it. One more question that would clinch it for me. Would the HD650 be more forgiving of old classical recordings than the 600? I'm talking about recordings as old as the 50's here. I may hate to admit it, but many of my favorite performances are these old recordings.

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

I think I am leaning toward the hd650 as long as I catch a decent deal on it. One more question that would clinch it for me. Would the HD650 be more forgiving of old classical recordings than the 600? I'm talking about recordings as old as the 50's here. I may hate to admit it, but many of my favorite performances are these old recordings.

 Yes. Especially those olden day trumpet highs 

 which can burst an ear drum or two with the wrong can, I've got a tonne of material from the 50's ranging
 from jazz, rock n roll and it can be a challenge not to reach for the EQ on some tracks. Eg, Little Richard anyone?
 
 In that case the HD650 would be the better fit for sure without having to use any sort of equalizer to tame sibilance in the upper mid range and treble area.

 

[LanceX]

Ah, good to know. I guess I will spring for a good deal on the HD650 whenever I find one

. Thank you all for your help.