[Terriero]

I’m a contractor for Sennheiser (check my sponsor tags), and when I talk to internal employees they are elated by this turn of events, especially with another audio company like Sonova that respects and wants to preserve what Sennheiser has done, and wants their consumer presence to grow.

The IE 900 has been in the works for a few years, but that should demonstrate that they’re very much participating in the high end market, and confident that they can take on the cost and responsibilities of launching a new flagship product.

As far as marketing goes, I’m here to interact and provide a connection with company and community, product managers and engineers with the audio enthusiast. I’ve been on Head-Fi for a long time, and I do my own independent stuff too, but since September I’ve been given more resources, and even more recently now I also get to work with @ericpalonen, who is a returning veteran from the HD 800 launch days (I still see tons of people with HD 800 Avatar pictures! I’m trying to get the graphic designers to make more avatar images for the new products).

I’ve always appreciated the Sennheiser honesty and more... quiet confidence in the products sound speaking for itself, you could say. Makes it easy to feel good about working with them! That part of Sennheiser’s DNA won’t change, but I have always felt there was an opportunity to share more about how innovations directly lead to the advanced sound of Sennheiser, and who is behind the creation of these headphones. I get to talk to Jermo Koehnke and other people in the company, and they’re teaching me stuff all the time about Helmholtz resonators (there’s 3 of them precision milled into the enclosure of the IE 900, and there’s even a cool interactive on the product page where you can see how each one affects the frequency response), IFL (In Front Localization), the differences between diffuse field targets and studio field targets (Harmon targets), etc... but also stories about how they often find highly skilled headphone assemblers in women who were previously hair dressers, with amazing manual dexterity. Stories like that, I believe people would enjoy reading them! Good news is that Sennheiser has continued marching to the beat of their own drums, but here on Head-Fi you may have noticed that we’re starting to do live streams, sharing music, and increasing the content we bring to you

Hope to see people at CanJam SoCal this year!

With the IE 900s release? Should we dream with the posibility of HD 900 or HD 800 successor in the future?

 

[zazex]

All you need is an EQ. You can have a new headphone you are craving at any time. even better than when done with material dampeners etc to change the sound. Just like a professional would do once he knows he already has the best transducer at hand.
but like I said, the audiophile market is mostly illogical.

but its changing.

not fully with your point here - because while eq can of course impact sound characteristics, it does little (if anything)
with respect to aspects such as soundstage, spacing, location, and others.

Plus you're adding additional circuitry, cables, and all that stuff.

(not wishing to be contrary here, just hoping to make a point)

 

[432789]

not fully with your point here - because while eq can of course impact sound characteristics, it does little (if anything)
with respect to aspects such as soundstage, spacing, location, and others.

Plus you're adding additional circuitry, cables, and all that stuff.

(not wishing to be contrary here, just hoping to make a point)

Software eq.

soundstage is difficult (and expensive) but it can also be achieved with Software processing to a point it makes every other solution laughable.

just ask people who own a smyth realiser.



Hopefully someone can create a similar software on normal computers for cheaper soon.

 

[Evshrug]

Software eq.

soundstage is difficult (and expensive) but it can also be achieved with Software processing to a point it makes every other solution laughable.

just ask people who own a smyth realiser.



Hopefully someone can create a similar software on normal computers for cheaper soon.

I own a Smyth Realiser A16, and it certainly is a show stealer. However it still matters what headphone you use it with; it cannot transform an HD 202 into an HD 800S.

Some brands do heavily rely on built-in DSPs with EQ (hint: they’re usually all-in-one units, or Bluetooth/ANC/digital input only products), but if it was the best solution it would have taken over completely a few years back.

 

[432789]

I own a Smyth Realiser A16, and it certainly is a show stealer. However it still matters what headphone you use it with; it cannot transform an HD 202 into an HD 800S.

Some brands do heavily rely on built-in DSPs with EQ (hint: they’re usually all-in-one units, or Bluetooth/ANC/digital input only products), but if it was the best solution it would have taken over completely a few years back.

I agree, but the original question/topic I believe was where do you go after you already have a top of the line Sennheiser headphone and there is no new Sennheiser model to upgrade to. And I was simply pointing out that such a solution for example together with an old HD800 is a way better upgrade than you will get buying any newly released headphone by itself. Because the latest models tend to be more overhyped than what they actually deliver objectively in comparison to previous models of the same class.

for example my favorite headphone is a sennheiser HE60 when driven on a powerful low distortion amp and most importantly properly eq’d. Because people say electrostatics don’t have bass. This thing has the best bass I have heard in a headphone so far. When it is properly eq’d it beats every headphone I have ever heard. Including the HD800s And I am so proud I own one. Tyll measured headphones for a long time and I went through almost every measurement he ever made. There is no other headphone with a lower THD. And this thing was build decades ago. Comfort is top notch too. Who ever the engineer was behind this headphone ( actually I really like to know who it was, I heard it was the exact same team who build the HE90) Send him a big thank you from me. Because they build a great transducer. And Eq easily optimizes them to perfection.

and again, this headphone was almost never really marketed. And went out of production quick. What a big shame.

 

[Evshrug]

I agree, but the original question/topic I believe was where do you go after you already have a top of the line Sennheiser headphone and there is no new Sennheiser model to upgrade to. And I was simply pointing out that such a solution for example together with an old HD800 is a way better upgrade than you will get buying any newly released headphone by itself. Because the latest models tend to be more overhyped than what they actually deliver objectively in comparison to previous models of the same class.

for example my favorite headphone is a sennheiser HE60 when driven on a powerful low distortion amp and most importantly properly eq’d. Because people say electrostatics don’t have bass. This thing has the best bass I have heard in a headphone so far. When it is properly eq’d it beats every headphone I have ever heard. Including the HD800s And I am so proud I own one. Tyll measured headphones for a long time and I went through almost every measurement he ever made. There is no other headphone with a lower THD. And this thing was build decades ago. Comfort is top notch too. Who ever the engineer was behind this headphone ( actually I really like to know who it was, I heard it was the exact same team who build the HE90) Send him a big thank you from me. Because they build a great transducer. And Eq easily optimizes them to perfection.

and again, this headphone was almost never really marketed. And went out of production quick. What a big shame.

Yes, it was the same team as the HE90, and they came back (some out of retirement!) to help with the HE-1 as well!

We shall have to see what happens. The A-Team has been very active, and the IE 900 has been their best effort so far... the way that it was a complete redesign of the IE 800 (other than the 7mm diameter of the driver, and the basic principle of it being a dynamic driver in-ear, almost everything was changed) and has been able to showcase a tighter yet smoother sound than ever before is a statement for where Sennheiser is taking their future products.

It will be interesting to see what independent reviewers find, and of course the listening experience is more informative than a representative graph, but Sennheiser’s stated THD for the IE 900 is <0.05% (94 dB, 1 kHz)

 

[Evshrug]

@thebrunx If you haven’t checked it out yet, you should see Sennheiser’s design ethos as portrayed by Jermo in the Q&A session he did here on head-fi for hours yesterday: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/live-q-a-ie-900-with-jermo-koehnke.957764/post-16353575

 

[Author]

and has been able to showcase a tighter yet smoother sound than ever before is a statement for where Sennheiser is taking their future products

Why would I care about where they are taking future products when they’re selling off the part of their company that is *responsible* for *making* those products In the first place? Sennheiser consumer division is rapidly becoming irrelevant to me. It’s all just so disappointing. Tarnished and mismanaged legacy.

 

[zazex]

Call me a pessimist, but I see this as destroying anything that is not "profitable" and anything that remains will be produced in China.

This Swiss company just spent several millions to buy the name Sennheiser... I don't see them turning around and investing in R&D any time soon.

Could be...but maybe not.
Any specific reason(s) you don't see them investing in R&D any time soon?

 

[Crowbar44]

Call me a pessimist, but I see this as destroying anything that is not "profitable" and anything that remains will be produced in China.

This Swiss company just spent several millions to buy the name Sennheiser... I don't see them turning around and investing in R&D any time soon.

They didn't just buy the name, they bought the factory, equipment, engineering, etc. Nice to see that it's a european company...albeit a european hearing aid company...

 

[MrGoat]

Could be...but maybe not.
Any specific reason(s) you don't see them investing in R&D any time soon?

Because, especially these days, I do not see a company buying out another company because they are passionate about the product they make. This is a business deal so that they can turn a profit - and that is the bottom line.

 

[Crowbar44]

Because, especially these days, I do not see a company buying out another company because they are passionate about the product they make. This is a business deal so that they can turn a profit - and that is the bottom line.

Respectfully - no company is going to be around for very long if they don't turn a profit - even with all the passion in the world. Jason Stoddard at Schiit makes the post in great detail in his book and blog posts.

Frankly, I admire the Sennheiser family for taking a clear-eyed look at what it would require to continue to compete in the high-end, consumer, headphone space, and decide that they did not want to play that game, and instead concentrate on the professional, engineering focused, side of their business. What will it take for Sennheiser to compete? Well lots of marketing, lots of investment in exotic designs and materials, and a significant push and active involvement in the online community and social media. Their engineering can stand on it's own...lets see if the hearing aid company is willing to invest in all the other stuff.

 

[ubs28]

Headphone companies like Hifiman, Focal, Abyss and even Sennheiser themselves don’t make the money that health care companies like Sonova are making. So it can be a good thing for Sennheiser to have more resources available.

However, I personally don’t see it as the right partnership. I would have been more interested in a partnership with Magico or ATC and use their technologies for high-end headphones.

Magico makes better speakers than Focal, so I see no reason why they would not be able to do the same with headphones too. So it is a missed opportunity for Sennheiser.

Samsung could have also been a nice business partner. It seems that the money is in the real consumer market (not in high-end headphones) and Samsung is very active there. And they are a big titan. Samsung could definetly utilize some of Sennheiser their expertise to make their products better.

 

[Mad Max]

Nah, Samsung ditched AKG's engineers and expertise, AKG will never be what it was before under Korean engineers and management. AKG is succeeded by Austrian Audio, whose engineers must now battle their own legacy, though their focus is pro audio. Samsung only cares for profits and would surely do the same with Sennheiser, shedding everything about ol' Senn sans their name.

 

[Sennheiser]

Hello Head-Fi!
Just checking in so you know all is well

I think it is a very very bad deal for Sennheiser.

1. the selling price is so cheap, not even a billion $

2. losing the consumer/audiophile market will make Sennheiser less and less known, so much so that only a tiny handful of guys in the Pro market will know the name in the future.

3. I can understand why Sennheiser couldn't keep up with Apple/Samsung/other cellphone makers in the TWS market - it requires tech and device compatibility, of course only those cellphones makers know how to work best with their own cellphones. But even if Sennheiser is less competitive in the TWS market, Senn should still hang onto it, reduce its TWS products (maybe only keep one or two), so that consumers in the market can still know that there is a famous HiFi brand called Sennheiser, and maybe some people are willing pay for it for a premium (just for the sake of good sound quality, albeit less technical). Losing the TWS market =/= losing the HiFi market.

4. I believe HD600/650/660/800S/820/etc are still profitable, all Sennheiser needs to do is to cut their non-profitable product lines - the ones below HD600 which are non-profitable. Sennheiser is well-known to the HiFi world because of the existence of their legendary HD600/650/660/800/800S/820 product lines. Now that these lines were cut, Sennheiser is doomed.

Partnering with Sonova brings us an influx of resources and more potential for growth and expansion, and we are also able to continue working with our own resources in personnel and facilities. We are very excited here! This is the opposite of abandoning the consumer/audiophile market! We currently have two True Wireless products, the affordable CX 400BT True Wireless and the flagship MOMENTUM True Wireless 2 . The HD 600, 650, 660S and HD 800S, and HD 820 are indeed profitable and will continue to be produced, but so are the large quantity sales of the rest of our consumer line, not to mention our new IE 300 is sold out temporarily and we're very excited to see the pre-order activity for our new IE 900!

Well im not a transducer expert but I guess there's been some improvements in that aspect regarding some new materials etc.. plus it's not about transducer because 2 headphones with the same driver can sound totally different depending of the design, dampening etc etc. And I didn't see Sennheiser playing with those possibilities.
Im not saying they are not honest.
Sadly ,that's how the market is, if you don't play, you are done.

its all subjective. I know people who came to the exact opposite conclusion than yours about beyerdynamics. I personally think the HD800 design is visually the most striking design I have ever seen on a headphone. And I don’t care much of weighty materials which don’t add any practicality and take away from comfort. But that’s just me. And I bet you can ask every other person and their preference may vary unless their preferences have been tightly molded through marketing, It’s a mess.

For those curious to talk to experts, check out our current and future Q&A's, such as this one with chief product manager Jermo Koehnke for the IE 900!
A short answer for now... we have indeed experimented and build prototypes of driver types and coatings for dynamic drivers, but we have only released the products which have demonstrably offered improvements. @Tano and @thebrunx are also absolutely correct... to make a loose car analogy and say the transducer is like an engine, cars experience a huge impact on performance from the frame, body, tires, and ergonomics/visibility for the passenger, just like the enclosure and entire acoustic system can transform the timbre and performance of a headphone. For example, the IE 900 has a similar driver design (more coil windings among other things) as the IE 300, but we were able to lower distortion, improve the clarity, and further refine the sound quality experience with the IE 900. In the case of the HD 800 and HD 800S, we had prototypes made of metal, but they were heavy and the materials caused resonance artifacts, and so we developed our own proprietary polymers that have exceptional hardness and resistance to resonance. So, while looks indeed are subjective, we found the way to better objective performance, and feel there is a certain beauty in that.