[Skyyyeman]

Re chips, it's strange there's such a dichotomy. I know when I had my 800, I got several chips and I don't know how. I used to lay my 800 on a pillow when I took it off my head and still got the chips. It really annoyed me.
 
I do know that a demo 800 unit at the old J&R in Manhattan had ALL the paint chipped away along the entire edge. Of course this was a demo unit, yet there were many other headphones used as demos as much or more than the 800, and none of them had the amount of chips like the 800. In fact, most looked virtually new. So, clearly there was something inferior about the paint job on the 800 with regard to durability.
 
I vowed never to touch an 800 again because of the chip problem alone. Before I'd even think about an 800s I'd need to know that the chip issue has been resolved with the new black paint.

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

   
I've only had the Senn's a couple of days, you may be right they are starting to sound good. Don't underestimate S Logic though, listening to trance with it's multi layered tracks and sounds appearing from all angles is pretty amazing on the 2500's, especially with the bass they have. 
 
I have to buy a balanced amp, I have a balanced MDAC and Cardas cable or can use the stock cable through my Little Dot 3.
 
I Like the Violectric Audio HPA V181 amp, no import duties just over £500 from Thomann, but everyone says tube amps are the way to go with the 800's, DNA Sonett looks nice, pair of three pinned balanced connectors for my Cardas a bonus, a bit more expensive as it's from the US.
 
Only other choices I see are the Little Dot or Woo Audio balanced amps.

I am no expert on sound and I haven't had too much experience with different amps.Here are my ramblings because I have just started 7 weeks of holiday and I have nothing better to do Before I took the plunge and bought my rig I did a lot of research on this website and the Valhalla 2 kept coming up as a good match for the HD800 even when compared with much more expensive amps. I know it isn't balanced. It can also be used as a preamp. When used with my 2 channel speaker setup I notice that it slightly blurs the horizontal soundstage so that you think that the music has much more depth just like a good turntable does. Is this accurate or not (probably not) but when listening to tube amplified guitars or percussion instruments they seem to linger and resonate more like the real thing to me, but then who am I to judge! Possibly the bass is also very very slightly weaker. When used with the HD800 and the V2 gets so hot that you can barely touch it then it is hard to describe but with my 800's there is pinpoint accuracy and there is all I can describe as a natural feeling to the sound which just makes me want to turn it up and listen to it for hours on end- infectious.As if it takes the edge of the digital source. Or adds a very very slight resonance like a room does in real life which our brains find more natural. Is this better than some other people's rigs- probably not I have no way of telling. But to me I get so much enjoyment and satisfaction from the setup. But the V2 is just one link in the chain. Why don't you try changing your sources with your current amp just demo lots of them? My Rega Apollo is an old CD player but it also has a warmth and I believe a synergy with the HD800. I think the worst kind of source is one where the soundstage is stretched out wide as the HD800 will just stretch it further and the soundstage appears more flat. I have noticed a lot of newer electronics do this to sound more spacious but they lack full body. I have tried lots of sources and the difference each time is large (if you just focus on soundstage). You know you can get pedantic and walk up to a whiteboard (or a piece of paper on the wall) and actually map out the soundstage with each device adding a cross for where the instrument is and some kind of number for its depth if you don't have a good audio memory. If you get a source like a hifi CD player with a less wide but with a deeper natural soundstage then it appears for me to work much more naturally with the HD800.  Albums like Radiohead Kid A I think this one was recorded in an old church or something similar, this is a good one for doing your soundstage mapping exercise. Enough rubbish from me

 

[vnmslsrbms]

Agree on the tube amps making guitars sound sweet and just simply better.  I definitely prefer my Clapton getting some tube treatment.  

 

[nprathap]

I am getting the HD 800 not sure if I should get the HD 800S and cancel the HD 800 which I am getting for USD1100.  What is the best balanced AMP I can use? I am looking for Tube amp.

Or should i scrap and wait for the HD 800S?

 

[Hi-Phi]

Had the same decision to make myself. I went with the HD800 S instead of getting a cheaper HD800. 

 

[nprathap]

I am confused as how much difference would be between HD 800 and HD 800-S as I went with HD 600 compared to HD 650 in the past.  Still not sure as my HD 800 is on its way and I will get them on 16th.

 

[XERO1]

I'm planning on going with the HD 800 S.

 

[LajostheHun]

As it happens I don't think the HD600 frequency response is better and I still prefer the HD800. Virtually all headphones are a compromise so adding EQ is a waste of time and effort that could be usefully employed listening to music. I prefer to choose headphones like any other piece of kit. Is it better than the alternatives I can afford? No need to worry about imaginary peaks and troughs on a graph.

Sure why bother with pesky science to intelligently choose a headphone, instead choose one based on highly reliable accounts of other people's opinions one may never meet.

 

[derbigpr]

Do you have Ed12? Otherwise you are joking. I said Ed12, because David Mahler said Ed12 have ONE of the most impressive sound stages of all time. But other than that Ultrasone are not impressive in that regard.

 
 
Have you ever heard any Ultrasone? I still claim my HFI2400's have the best imaging and soundstage of any headphone I've ever owned, that includes the T1's, HD650's, K701's, etc. If there's ANYTHING Ultrasone headphones excel at, it's soundstage. Especially if S-logic works with your ear shape, no other headphones at the same price image as well, have a frontal image as precise, or wrap the soundstage around your head as well.  HFi2400 is the only headphone ever where I can hear where the backing vocals in some songs are standing relative to each other, stuff that I only hear on speakers and no other headphones.

 

[derbigpr]

   
Not that old fallacy... You'd end up with boring, clinical sound if you listened to what was exactly recorded. It's the mastering process that makes music enjoyable to listen to, thus skilled mastering engineers earn a lot of money. You can change the mastered final recording to your tastes with different gear. Old audiophile gear actually used tubes, analog equipment, vinyl etc. which produced a warm, smooth, yummy sound... Not flat, boring, dry.

 
Not necessarily. Listen to these examples of raw recordings:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PCne5BZyeU
https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/sets/portable-interfaces
 
Does this sound boring and clinical to you?  Not to me, to me it sounds warm, smooth and natural, those vocals sound as real as it gets, even through headphones.
 
Properly recorded music is not boring and clinical, it's natural and sounds as good as possible. The problem is, most people who work in the industry have no freaking idea what they're doing when it comes to either recording or mastering, that's why most music ends up sounding mediocre at best and nowhere near being natural or realistic. The "skilled mastering engineers" in most cases just screw up the raw recordings and make them sound good on cheap audio equipment, so that it could appeal to a wider audience.

 

[Dadracer]

 

As it happens I don't think the HD600 frequency response is better and I still prefer the HD800. Virtually all headphones are a compromise so adding EQ is a waste of time and effort that could be usefully employed listening to music. I prefer to choose headphones like any other piece of kit. Is it better than the alternatives I can afford? No need to worry about imaginary peaks and troughs on a graph.

Sure why bother with pesky science to intelligently choose a headphone, instead choose one based on highly reliable accounts of other people's opinions one may never meet.

Where did I mention I don't believe in a science based approach? I fully expect and trust that Sennheiser will put a massive amount of science behind the development of their TOTL headphones. It is science I don't specifically understand as I am not an acoustic engineer but I can certainly appreciate it as the consumer of the end product. 
 
I think I was also quite directional in how I assess kit for my own use and no where did I mention basing it upon the opinion of people I don't know or have never met.
 
I believe I said I listened to determine if a specific item was better or worse than what I already had and then if could I also afford it. You are entitled to disagree with me as to my methodology and you may prefer to scrutinise frequency responses and all the technical data which I don't understand but it doesn't make me wrong and you right or vice versa.    
 
So if that makes me less than intelligent in your view then you are of course entitled to your opinion.

 

[shabta]

  Where did I mention I don't believe in a science based approach? I fully expect and trust that Sennheiser will put a massive amount of science behind the development of their TOTL headphones. It is science I don't specifically understand as I am not an acoustic engineer but I can certainly appreciate it as the consumer of the end product. 
 
I think I was also quite directional in how I assess kit for my own use and no where did I mention basing it upon the opinion of people I don't know or have never met.
 
I believe I said I listened to determine if a specific item was better or worse than what I already had and then if could I also afford it. You are entitled to disagree with me as to my methodology and you may prefer to scrutinise frequency responses and all the technical data which I don't understand but it doesn't make me wrong and you right or vice versa.    
 
So if that makes me less than intelligent in your view then you are of course entitled to your opinion.

I don't mean to comment on how much you believe in science, but the earcup resonance of the HD800 leading to a peak around 6khz is a well understood and well documented phenomena. All HD800s have this problem whatever the graph you got from sennheiser says. That is why your put down of EQ is somewhat puzzling. That is exactly why Sennheiser is coming out with the HD800S, to address the resonance issue. For those that already have the HD800 you can try addressing the peak with either or both a mod and eq. It's fine to say that you listened to the headphone and prefer it unmodded or eq'd, there are many people who have tried it and removed the mod or eq. But that doesn't mean that the peak isn't there...

 

[Dadracer]

Its not a put down of EQ per se. If that is how you want to immerse yourself in your hobby that's fine. I listen to mainly vinyl based music on my system which has the HD800s and so there are already plenty of variables in the line to optimise without adding in yet more. 
 
What I am rather against is the attitude that the HD800 is intolerable without EQ. I am sure that you are entirely correct about these resonances at 6kHz and which may well arise from what you say, but they don't impinge on my enjoyment of the music which I listen to via my HD800s and which I have owned for a number of years. I am not for a moment in the belief that these headphones are perfect and without flaw, but they are the best compromise in a headphone I have heard that I really enjoy and which I can afford. Maybe the 800 S will resolve these resonances and the scales will be lifted from my eyes or maybe I wont be able to tell one from the other...........don't know yet until I hear them side by side. 
 
So, in summary, if you prefer to modify or EQ your headphones for maximum listening pleasure then that's great. I prefer not to, and for me and my humble opinion that's equally great.

 

[blacknile]

 
Properly recorded music is not boring and clinical, it's natural and sounds as good as possible. The problem is, most people who work in the industry have no freaking idea what they're doing when it comes to either recording or mastering, that's why most music ends up sounding mediocre at best and nowhere near being natural or realistic. The "skilled mastering engineers" in most cases just screw up the raw recordings and make them sound good on cheap audio equipment, so that it could appeal to a wider audience.

 
This, 1000 times.

 

[blacknile]

  I don't mean to comment on how much you believe in science, but the earcup resonance of the HD800 leading to a peak around 6khz is a well understood and well documented phenomena.

 
Hi, would you care to provide a link to the peer-reviewed scientific publication showing this? I cannot find any trace in the literature for what you state above - though I do find subjective measurements by enthusiasts on a number of forums.
 
To clarify, is the "well understood" and "well documented" phenomenon you mention based on such observations?