[shabta]

   
Merci! Voila:
 
Check the right column there's more....... et des chansons de triangle, magma etc...
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie4pxwqIKsQ

Ok so I was confused, Never remember hearing Voyage before. The drummer is pretty excellent!

 

[Mortalcoil]

I am looking forward to hearing the mk2. I think you may have a point, especially since a lot of hip hop and top 40 seem to be mixed on V-shaped headphones, the TH900 might indeed be well suited to those genres. And since almost all of that music is loudness wars compressed, it really might not be the best for a more revealing headphone like the HD800 or some Stax. In general, those headphones don't have the slam of a planar magnetic nor a closed back set of cans. But it isn't clear at all that the actual Bass reproduction on the HD800 S doesn't go low enough or that something is being left out. It just might be that a lot of the music you listen too was really mixed more for a pair of Beats than an HD800. For some EDM, and other related genres I think the detail of the HD800 is mind blowingly essential.

 
 
I think until you have spent alot of time with the 900 its hard to judge it as some one dimensional, basshead, "Can for Cretins".  Not that I am implying this is what you meant shabta in your post, although the "Beats" reference was cutting it a little close

.
 
Seriously though, both headphones compliment each other perfectly.  For Jazz and Classical (speed / detail / retrieval) the 800 is a great choice for most everything else the 900 excels (although it does it all amazingly good also).
 
Keep in mind that the 900 is a very complex, sophisticated, and technically proficient headphone that can easily rival all of the other top tier offerings.
 
Two different flavours of high end headphone goodness.
 
Another Head-Fier mentioned something about equalizing and that the 800 can be equalized to earth moving bass levels,  while this may hold some truth the fact of the matter is that with over eqing the rest of the sound spectrum is lost / suffers.
 
IMO a headphone is designed a certain way to sound a certain way right out of the box in its virgin form and although we can modify its "God" given sound at the end of the day it is really what the designers created it to be.
 
Equalizing and modding will only get you so far.  The headphones DNA needs to be geared towards a certain sound right from the get go.
 
My opinions are from someone who appreciates both headphones immensly.  Both suffer from a few weaknesses and both excel at what they do well.
 
Ying and Yang.

 

[Whazzzup]

I'll attest to th900 slam, when the music demands that. I went as far as getting lawtons dampening DIY level one, it's not that hard to install, not because of the high frequency peak that some complain about. I was getting some sub bass or low end slam reverb type thing, that was starting to bother me a little. I don't equalize because of philosophy but also my collection is so darn diversified in genre and recording quality that I have no patience to tweak anything.
So the dampening helped th900 low end for me, tightened it a smidgen and didn't seem to take away any low end extension. My point being, the 900 is an amazing can with good detail, separation and clarity. You can hear Mrs wilerstein breath etc...but it's all about the bass. By extension drums are so real. The kick, Tom, snare crash is as real as it gets, especially for great jazz drummers, I have an epro live pearl kit so dabble in that area as well. ( not acoustic kit on negotiation from my wife who said no to that)
However and I'm making an assumption here because I don't test equipment. I know blasphemy and risky. But hang on head fi, Google etc and fell into my present rigs because of this. ( happy so far) that the recessed Mids ( debate how much) make this a fun can, not a coloured one tho. I'm looking for studio transparent acoustical representation of the tunes that focuses on accuracy, yet that in itself should also be fun. I would appreciate those strings, choir, guitars of the "four martins" say to just pop that extra level in the Mids detail, that I feel is lacking in the th900.
Now I'm sorry if this is a first world problem and anyone with th900 would be blessed compared to most, but that's my interest in the 800s, and will do a short side by side post on my TT when they arrive. Then the effects of DHC compliment 4 after.
Cheers.

 

[Whazzzup]

I am looking forward to hearing the mk2. I think you may have a point, especially since a lot of hip hop and top 40 seem to be mixed on V-shaped headphones, the TH900 might indeed be well suited to those genres. And since almost all of that music is loudness wars compressed, it really might not be the best for a more revealing headphone like the HD800 or some Stax. In general, those headphones don't have the slam of a planar magnetic nor a closed back set of cans. But it isn't clear at all that the actual Bass reproduction on the HD800 S doesn't go low enough or that something is being left out. It just might be that a lot of the music you listen too was really mixed more for a pair of Beats than an HD800. For some EDM, and other related genres I think the detail of the HD800 is mind blowingly essential.

I think until you have spent alot of time with the 900 its hard to judge it as some one dimensional, basshead, "Can for Cretins".  Not that I am implying this is what you meant shabta in your post, although the "Beats" reference was cutting it a little close :wink_face: .

Seriously though, both headphones compliment each other perfectly.  For Jazz and Classical (speed / detail / retrieval) the 800 is a great choice for most everything else the 900 excels (although it does it all amazingly good also).

Keep in mind that the 900 is a very complex, sophisticated, and technically proficient headphone that can easily rival all of the other top tier offerings.

Two different flavours of high end headphone goodness.

Another Head-Fier mentioned something about equalizing and that the 800 can be equalized to earth moving bass levels,  while this may hold some truth the fact of the matter is that with over eqing the rest of the sound spectrum is lost / suffers.

IMO a headphone is designed a certain way to sound a certain way right out of the box in its virgin form and although we can modify its "God" given sound at the end of the day it is really what the designers created it to be.

Equalizing and modding will only get you so far.  The headphones DNA needs to be geared towards a certain sound right from the get go.

My opinions are from someone who appreciates both headphones immensly.  Both suffer from a few weaknesses and both excel at what they do well.

Ying and Yang.

Wow I literally typed My previous post a minute after or before your post. Bit redundant but emphasizing for impact I guess.

 

[Mortalcoil]

Wow I literally typed My previous post a minute after or before your post. Bit redundant but emphasizing for impact I guess.

 
 
Great minds think alike

 

[phonomat]

nvm.

 

[shabta]

 
 
I think until you have spent alot of time with the 900 its hard to judge it as some one dimensional, basshead, "Can for Cretins".  Not that I am implying this is what you meant shabta in your post, although the "Beats" reference was cutting it a little close

.
 
Seriously though, both headphones compliment each other perfectly.  For Jazz and Classical (speed / detail / retrieval) the 800 is a great choice for most everything else the 900 excels (although it does it all amazingly good also).
 
Keep in mind that the 900 is a very complex, sophisticated, and technically proficient headphone that can easily rival all of the other top tier offerings.
 
Two different flavours of high end headphone goodness.
 
Another Head-Fier mentioned something about equalizing and that the 800 can be equalized to earth moving bass levels,  while this may hold some truth the fact of the matter is that with over eqing the rest of the sound spectrum is lost / suffers.
 
IMO a headphone is designed a certain way to sound a certain way right out of the box in its virgin form and although we can modify its "God" given sound at the end of the day it is really what the designers created it to be.
 
Equalizing and modding will only get you so far.  The headphones DNA needs to be geared towards a certain sound right from the get go.
 
My opinions are from someone who appreciates both headphones immensly.  Both suffer from a few weaknesses and both excel at what they do well.
 
Ying and Yang.

 


I don't disagree with anything you have said here. The TH900 is a really good pair of headphones, especially since the price has plummeted. I honestly meant no offence with the beats reference, it is true that if you look around the web, there are an awful lots of photos of well-known engineers mixing with a pair of beats on their head. Did you know that back in the day, the Cars would often use a crappy transistor radio to test their mix? It was common practice for pop music. It just makes sense that if your target audience's ultimate audio experience is a pair of Beats you would be pretty foolish to mix for a different sort of audio setup. If I listened to highly compressed top 40 music and hip hop almost exclusively, I doubt that the HD800 would be my can of choice, nor would a pair of Wilson Alexandria be my speaker choice. But when Hip Hop is well recorded like the recent Kendrick Lamar, then I think the HD800 might have a few things up its sleeve relative to the TH900 that are worthy of consideration.

 

[phonomat]

  I didn't say it competes in transparency and accuracy, even though TH900 is very good at those in my opinion. I said "if you like bass...". TH900 bass is far better, in my opinion for the genres I mentioned. Have you ever heard TH900? It's not a bloated bass cannon. It has present and thunderous bass but only when the recording calls for it. You can EQ it to sound very bassy with no distortion whatsoever, but in its stock form, it only pumps out thunderous bass if the artist intended that. Also it can go to depths HD800 can never go. Again "if you like bass..." and "EDM, hiphop, Top 40 music" are the key words here.

Absolutely with obsidyen on this.

 

[Whazzzup]

 
 
I think until you have spent alot of time with the 900 its hard to judge it as some one dimensional, basshead, "Can for Cretins".  Not that I am implying this is what you meant shabta in your post, although the "Beats" reference was cutting it a little close

.
 
Seriously though, both headphones compliment each other perfectly.  For Jazz and Classical (speed / detail / retrieval) the 800 is a great choice for most everything else the 900 excels (although it does it all amazingly good also).
 
Keep in mind that the 900 is a very complex, sophisticated, and technically proficient headphone that can easily rival all of the other top tier offerings.
 
Two different flavours of high end headphone goodness.
 
Another Head-Fier mentioned something about equalizing and that the 800 can be equalized to earth moving bass levels,  while this may hold some truth the fact of the matter is that with over eqing the rest of the sound spectrum is lost / suffers.
 
IMO a headphone is designed a certain way to sound a certain way right out of the box in its virgin form and although we can modify its "God" given sound at the end of the day it is really what the designers created it to be.
 
Equalizing and modding will only get you so far.  The headphones DNA needs to be geared towards a certain sound right from the get go.
 
My opinions are from someone who appreciates both headphones immensly.  Both suffer from a few weaknesses and both excel at what they do well.
 
Ying and Yang.

 


I don't disagree with anything you have said here. The TH900 is a really good pair of headphones, especially since the price has plummeted. I honestly meant no offence with the beats reference, it is true that if you look around the web, there are an awful lots of photos of well-known engineers mixing with a pair of beats on their head. Did you know that back in the day, the Cars would often use a crappy transistor radio to test their mix? It was common practice for pop music. It just makes sense that if your target audience's ultimate audio experience is a pair of Beats you would be pretty foolish to mix for a different sort of audio setup. If I listened to highly compressed top 40 music and hip hop almost exclusively, I doubt that the HD800 would be my can of choice, nor would a pair of Wilson Alexandria be my speaker choice. But when Hip Hop is well recorded like the recent Kendrick Lamar, then I think the HD800 might have a few things up its sleeve relative to the TH900 that are worthy of consideration.

Beats "yous gots to be kidding" ( for studio mixing?) before I went reference I got the tuned beats upgrade dr dre detox. I use it exclusively on my pearl drum kit now, and it's fine for crashing, thumping and pounding. After a year I bothered to do a side by side with 900 and it was sad waffle mush compared. Sorry to beat readers but I got to call it as I see it.

 

[Mortalcoil]

I don't disagree with anything you have said here. The TH900 is a really good pair of headphones, especially since the price has plummeted. I honestly meant no offence with the beats reference, it is true that if you look around the web, there are an awful lots of photos of well-known engineers mixing with a pair of beats on their head. Did you know that back in the day, the Cars would often use a crappy transistor radio to test their mix? It was common practice for pop music. It just makes sense that if your target audience's ultimate audio experience is a pair of Beats you would be pretty foolish to mix for a different sort of audio setup. If I listened to highly compressed top 40 music and hip hop almost exclusively, I doubt that the HD800 would be my can of choice, nor would a pair of Wilson Alexandria be my speaker choice. But when Hip Hop is well recorded like the recent Kendrick Lamar, then I think the HD800 might have a few things up its sleeve relative to the TH900 that are worthy of consideration.

 
 
No offence taken.
 
As long as you agree with me we are all good   

 
Agreed that the 800 has a few tricks up its sleeve we can surely agree that the 900 does also.
 
Would really love to hear the 800S though, def on my radar as a possible next purchase.

 

[wdh777]

How do folks think this compares to the hifiman edition x? In reading reviews of both it seems like it goes both ways so there is not a clear consensus. Does that imply they are pretty much in line so it just comes down to personal preference? Thanks

 

[Mortalcoil]

How do folks think this compares to the hifiman edition x? In reading reviews of both it seems like it goes both ways so there is not a clear consensus. Does that imply they are pretty much in line so it just comes down to personal preference? Thanks

 I would chalk it up as personal preference based on what I have read on the X (havent heard them for myself)

 

[DWbirdseye]

Ok so I was confused, Never remember hearing Voyage before. The drummer is pretty excellent!

Merci vous etes tres gentille.

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

  I'd like to think that's the explanation. Especially since in my experience Sorrodje seems to hear the same things that I hear when he reports his findings on a piece of equipment. But having ab'ed some supposedly really different pairs of HD800 (based on the Senn supplied graph) I didn't find that those differences were easily identifiable in the sound of each pair. Maybe I will mess around with eq on my HD800 and see how close I can get to the S... you know, jes fer some fuuuuhn...

Hi again Shabta, another hard question but if anyone can answer this without bias it's you

, I really have appreciated the honesty and detail in your past responses . Recently I upgraded from Rega Apollo CD Player to Rega DAC R fed by the Apollo as transport. It made a large night and day difference (soundstage/ detail/ lack of grain)  as you would expect going from a ten year old CD player (although good for the time)  to a current quality DAC. 
 
Anyway my question is.....Is the perceived difference between HD800 and HD800S larger/smaller or equal to the difference involved when you have changed DAC's/source components in your past.   
 
Just trying to get a handle on the magnitude of the difference between the two. 
 
Sorry for the hard q !

 

[Sorrodje]

The question wasn't for me but the difference is larger .We're talking about a difference of 5db for the 5-6khz area and relatively to the 2-4khz area it's a 7db diffference. if I trust my measurements and my ears that hopefully tell me the same story: the difference is clearly noticeable and Everybody should be able ear it at first listen of any vocal music for example. But the difference is not only the tamed sibilances. Overally the HD800 is slightly more balanced and the mids to treble articulation a bit smoother.  it's still not subtle to my ears but not as obvious as the tamed 6khz. what's more subtle but we're several to notice that.  the HD800 sounds a bit more dynamic with a feeling of more speed or harder hitting transients with a bit more bite and presence. I definitely think it's due to the improved High mids range. Seems lile , with the 6khz tamed , a lot of other aspects have more room to appear more. Hope that makes sense for you. 
 
That been said , the Closer headphone to the HD800S I can think of is the HD800 itself.
 
People who want an open TH900 , a technical HD650 , a resolving Audeze , a less soft HEK , a euphonic HD800 or whatever you want will be disappointed. 
People who are fine with the HD800 have no real interest to take the splunge for the 800S. 
Poeple who liked the HD800 but always stuggled with the treble harshness or the cold mids should give the 800S a listen.
People who modded their HD800 definitely have to try their mod in the 800S. all mods never fixed the 6khz but improved some other points so those improvement ( warmer sound sig + less diffuse soundstage) could IMO be still welcome in the 800S... 
 
That's my highly summarized opinion thus far.