[davidhunternyc]

The Sennheiser HD800 and Beyerdynamic T1 represent the latest and best in full-sized headphone transducer engineering. It would be useful to learn about the differences in both of these companies approach to the subject, and whether or not any qualitative conclusions can be made. Hopefully there are some engineers here who will contribute to this thread.

Sennheiser HD800

Beyerdynamic T1

 

[nikongod]

I think this thread has been brought around before.

Sadly anyone qualified to speak as to the relative merits of either transducer design most likley has ties to the manufacturer through employment and their comentary on the "other guy's" transducer is both subject to that, as well as forbidden on these forums.

I dont think this thread is going to go well, but I eagerly await worthless speculation and conjecture by unqualified individuals.

 

[crapback]

I think the HD800 is going to sound better, because the ring transducer is ribbed for our pleasure.

No conjecture, no speculation, just good old perversion, of which I am overly qualified.

 

[UnderTheBridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think this thread has been brought around before. Sadly anyone qualified to speak as to the relative merits of either transducer design most likley has ties to the manufacturer through employment and their comentary on the "other guy's" transducer is both subject to that, as well as forbidden on these forums. I dont think this thread is going to go well, but I eagerly await worthless speculation and conjecture by unqualified individuals.

Uhh yeah Sennheiser's transducer thing is better...lol I just wanted to start off the speculation

 

[MacedonianHero]

Funny, I'm an engineer with 15 years in the electronics manufacturing industry and a Masters' Degree and don't have a clue which theoretically should sound better on paper.

My ears tell me that the HD800s have the W-I-D-E-S-T sound stage I've ever heard with incredible micro detail retrieval, deep, deep bass and very neutral. The T1s have a good sound stage (not as good though), almost the same, maybe a little less detail retrieval, just as deep bass, but with more impact and seem slightly more musical. They too are neutral, but just on the warm side of neutral. Both have outstanding mids and treble!

Overall they are both winners. I think I still prefer the more musical sounding T1s...I will have a comparison later this week after more burn in on the HD800s.

Either way, there is no wrong choice here!

 

[davidhunternyc]

I was hoping that someone would be able to take each constituent part from both transducers and analyze the differences and similarities. How does each transducer differ in producing sound? An engineer, with 15 years in the electronic industry, could make an attempt to understand this issue which has been so elusive to all of us at Head-Fi. No matter the outcome, it will be better than where we are now. So far, we are stuck at ground-zero.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was hoping that someone would be able to take each constituent part from both transducers and analyze the differences and similarities. How does each transducer differ in producing sound? An engineer, with 15 years in the electronic industry, could make an attempt to understand this issue which has been so elusive to all of us at Head-Fi. No matter the outcome, it will be better than where we are now. So far, we are stuck a ground-zero.

Sorry, I've got two young kids who keep me running around too much. If I have some time to sit down, I'll try...but no promises.

From my initial thoughts both look like a radical departure from what I'm used to seeing on dynamic headphones. The interesting how both went with an off centre design to emulate the sound waves coming into the ear as from loud speakers...

 

[musicman59]

Isn't the off center design technique also used by Ultrasone with some of their headphones like the Edition 9 to take advantage of the human ear to simulate the presentation closer to speakers like sound?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Yes, the angling of the transducers is not new technology. Whether the transducers are angled or not, it would be great to find engineers who have the knowledge and ability to examine each of the transducers on a micro level.

 

[M3NTAL]

well davidhunternyc, why don't you provide us some technical specifications so that we can give you a better answer. Your images don't tell much of any story.

It is like showing me a motor from a sport bike and an engine from a f1 car. They both look like motors and they both provide the same function and they are both expensive and meant for racing, but why is one different than the other???

There is much more than looks involved. T/S measurements? HA HA HA (joke)

 

[davidhunternyc]

Before I posted this, I wrote to Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic and asked if their engineers might forward me detailed technical specifications of their transducers. I also asked if they would comment on their engineering design decisions and how those decisions effect sound reproduction. We will see if these companies write me back.

 

[wnmnkh]

As one who had access to some sensitive files, I must say Sony and Fostex's achievements on its organic transducers are more surprising and phenomenal. Though I must mention I had/have not tried to access any deeper info on any of these German inventions.




But as seen in Q10/SA5/3000 and Denon D2000/5000/7000, it is evident that transducer technology is just part of total headphone sound quality. Cables, housing and many other things matter.




To be honest head-fi is really dark at technology of products that its member love. If they know how HD800 stock cable had been made, they would not disregard so easily and waste their money on 3rd party cable.

Too bad there is limitation on such sensitive information to be revealed on public.

 

[donthuang]

We still don't know much about the two headphone. below is some of my wild guesses,to clarify is i am not an engineer,but a headphone fan.

HD800

1.Ring radiator driver:would be have lower radiation impedance than soft dome ,and not "vibrate" as a piston. this concept different to AKG's Varimotion diaphragm ,which seek for "pure-piston motion", very interesting.

2.45 degrees angle driver:Although senns still claim it's "loudness diffused-field",but IMO,this seems like more close the concept of free-field, Simulate a speaker at a particular location in space,and carefully tune to phase coherence.(make a slight "delay" to avoid different freQ sound waves interfere each other),i guues that's why HD800's stage and image so amazing.

3.Ring magnet: looks like a effective and simple design compare other more complex structure and easy to assemble. means HD800 can use better quality magnets in fixed cost.

4.the hi-tech leona martial and sandwich headband : lower resonance from driver, allow to use much bigger driver and not cast more distortion like some headphone.

T1

1.The "tesla magnets" : a new magnets uses Halbach Array? the magnet system looks like been well craft, as AKG K1000's VLD system, and Quila 010's.

2.New two-ply compound foil diaphragm: i don't know much about this, according some info, it's a 43mm soft dome diaphragm.

3.The bass-reflex system:IMO, this is which really make beyer's headphone so special, use Helmholtz resonator to control cabinet's resonance condition,boost up particular freq range ,makes a more big "virtual diaphragm",but the airflows "port"/acoustic baffle need to been very carefully design, i guess it's much hard to design in headphone than speaker.

4.15 degrees angle driver: it seems much different than senn's , not try to "simulate a speaker at a particular location" , but try to avoid creating reflections from the outer ear,and optimize "out of head location"? i really hope more detail official info, some people says T1 has narrow and more and "in front of" sound-field than HD800, that's really make sense.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'm not an engineer and I am not going to speculate on the drivers.

However, I would like to call for a professional analysis or explanation of how the drivers interact with the rest of the headphone on these models. The shapes of the cups, choice of materials, and so on.

The drivers don't operate by themselves, the cups also play a large role in the sound.

 

[Born2bwire]

I am an engineer.

It would appear that Beyerdynamic has opted to go all out and give their transducers the white glove treatment. Sennheiser apparently is content to let their transducers spontaneously fall to pieces when subjected to zero-g environments.

Verdict: Beyerdynamic.