Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Nov 14, 2017 at 1:49 PM Post #1,097 of 8,970

chimney189

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Here is what I can tell you about those two cables.

Cable 1 (Ebay) cost/quality of components: Furutech connectors are ~$50 (these are the best DIY Sennheiser connectors available at the moment), Furutech 1/4 inch plug ~$20, Mogami W2534 ~$8 (sold online for $2 per foot), nylon sleeving ~$5-10. So, roughly $80 for the parts, charging $170, they are making around $90 (minus Ebay fees) on that cable. The Mogami cable is the biggest concern as it is dirt cheap, doesn't mean it doesn't perform well, I cannot speak to how it sounds, and many users on the DIY cable threads use it to make inexpensive cables, but there are better options available and that is a big markup for that type of wiring.

Cable 2 (C3 Audio) cost/quality of components: Cardas Sennheiser HD6XX connectors ~$15 (these are poor quality, IMO), same Furutech 1/4 inch plug ~$20, nylon sleeving ~$5-10, silver-plated oxygen-free copper - quality/price unknown. So these cables are worth $50 plus whatever the cost of the mystery copper wiring, and charging $200. Without knowing the quality of the conductors (they do not even include specs on the purity of the copper, or conductor gauge), I think this is a huge gamble, could be paying as much as a $130 markup for these components. I can't speak to if/how silver-plating copper affects sound quality, but the true purpose is to reduce corrosion of the copper with a protective layer of silver.

The point I am trying to make here, and sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but it is always, always cheaper/better to make your own cables, if you are willing.

A HFier PM'd me asking about making DIY cables, thought I'd share my response here for other people that might be interested:

Here are the sites I use for components:

https://www.moon-audio.com/
http://www.partsconnexion.com/
http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=common/home

All three sites sell cable/wire, connectors, and plugs. Prices are mostly the same across the board but obviously will depend on the quality of the components you seek out. The Furutech Sennheiser connectors I used on my cable are the best available at the moment, but they are expensive, around $50. You can also find Sennheiser connectors on Amazon/Ebay. An inexpensive and high-quality option for plugs that I really like is the Japanese brand Oyaide. Presumably, the quality of the conductors (wire) is going to have the greatest affect on the sound, and you will pay much more for better cable/wiring (e.g., Black Dragon is $14 per foot, whereas Mogami cabling is more like $1-2 per foot). I will say that I was using wiring for previous cables advertised as OCC and paid very little for it, but the Black Dragon clearly sounds better (advertised as UP-OCC). Using a "helping hands" alligator aid is almost a necessity - you have to have something in place to keep the components together so you can get a good joint. You'll also need heat shrink and a way to heat it up - a lighter can be used, but sometimes causes black singe marks. A heat gun is the better method but will cost you around $25. You will also need a multimeter to test for connections as well as shorts, Amazon for $15-20.

It takes an initial investment to get started and it won't be easy the first time. But if you think you will be in this hobby for a while and could potentially make multiple cables, it is well worth it. You are always going to pay a mark-up for after-market cables (or else the cable makers wouldn't be profitable). I personally don't think it is so difficult that it is worth paying someone to make the cables. However, if you aren't good at tasks that require some dexterity, or you don't think you will have the patience, or the time (1-3 hours depending on the intricacy of the cable you are building), and do have some disposable income, then it may be better for you to pay someone else to assemble the cable. But by doing it yourself, you pay less, have more control over customizability, and can ensure the quality of the work. Like I said in my post, I got a 53% discount and used better parts by making my Black Dragon cable myself. Multiply that over several cables after the initial investment to get going and you can see the savings is significant.

Here is a page on Headfonia about building your own cables: https://www.headfonia.com/a-cable-not-rocket-science/

Sorry for the book, I've had a couple people ask so I figured I'd just post my two cents.

Thanks for the informative post!
I don't see myself getting into cable making, but maybe you can guide me to some cable makers that make quality custom cables that aren't ridiculously priced up?
 
Nov 14, 2017 at 1:56 PM Post #1,098 of 8,970

L0rdGwyn

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@L0rdGwyn how you like deep house on the hd660s? Does it fare better than on the hd6xx/650?

Ajunabeats and anjunadeep junkie here.... :wink:

Well I never had the chance to listen to the 6XX/650 and 660S side-by-side like I did the 600, but from memory, I would say the 660S is much better for deep house, no question in my mind. The 660S is just more crisp/clear, especially the bass, which to me is very important for EDM, not to mention the larger soundstage and better dynamics.
 
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Nov 14, 2017 at 2:08 PM Post #1,099 of 8,970

FancyRobotUnicorn

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Have you considered looking into Philips Fidelo X2?
I have looked into the X2, but I'm seeing mixed opinions on them. Tyll on innerfidelity seemed to be impressed with them but dms on youtube says he's hearing a lot of distortion in them which is strange. Some people are saying that the SQ went down at some point from the earlier units, so this stuff has made me stay away from them thus far. Maybe you guys can fill me in on that. Also, this is the first I've heard about a new HR model, maybe I should look into that.
 
Nov 14, 2017 at 2:26 PM Post #1,100 of 8,970

L0rdGwyn

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Thanks for the informative post!
I don't see myself getting into cable making, but maybe you can guide me to some cable makers that make quality custom cables that aren't ridiculously priced up?

It's tough, the markup is sort of built into the business model. The tricky thing is, unless the cable/wiring used is of a reputable name brand (as opposed to just saying "high purity copper" or "OCC"), there really isn't a way to absolutely know its quality. The two big names for high quality cable/wiring are Moon Audio and Cardas. Buying cables from either company directly will cost $200-250 for their cheapest models (Blue Dragon, Cardas Headphone Cable).

With that being said, here are some Ebay options that seem to be good choices:

Secondhand Moon Audio Blue Dragon - unclear if the seller built this cable him or herself or if it was purchased from Moon Audio. Either way, if the build was done well, it is a good price for a Blue Dragon cable (bulk cable goes for $12/foot alone, so just the conductors for this build would cost you $48):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4ft-Blue-D...879855?hash=item4b2cf633ef:g:VwkAAOSwglVaB2q9

Venus Audio Ebay seller - Canare or Mogami cables - no mystery here, seller clearly states what they are using, which are budget friendly components. Canare and Mogami cable is cheap, but many HFiers use it to make cables and are happy with the results. Cost of the components is around $40, so paying $60-70 for a budget cable isn't a terrible markup. Options for 6 or 8 feet, sleeved or unsleeved:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEIS...609321?hash=item1c6e89ce69:g:4AIAAOSwHnFVzNfx
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Sennheis...631331?hash=item282633f5e3:g:uN4AAOSwqfNXoPv5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Foot-Sen...385629?hash=item2817774a5d:g:8zAAAOSwT6pVp8Xq

If I see anything else around I will post it.

Edit: I contacted the seller of the Blue Dragon, it was built by the seller, not Moon Audio, just FYI.
 
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Nov 14, 2017 at 2:30 PM Post #1,101 of 8,970

EternalChampion

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I've discovered this video which makes my concerns more explanatory I believe.



It just shows an aspect of the mid-bass "brick" that ruins musicality on HD600 and especially the HD650.

Anybody who can confirm that this is gone with HD660S? If not, no way I'm getting the new headphones.
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 7:50 PM Post #1,106 of 8,970

Malfunkt

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This is precisely the reason why I've not sold the Hd700 even after the Hd800S entered the house. :)

That’s awesome to hear.

Similarly, the HD660S is not a replacement for the 700. The HD700 is a marvel in its enclosure combined and how it interacts with the driver. It creates incredible spaciousness that has a tinge of artificiality - natural with a bit of that modern Sennheiser sheen.



Warning: Sacrilege and non-conforming headphone thoughts ahead.



The 660S is a compromise rather than an evolution.



Before anyone crucifies me, imagine the 660S tuning in the HD700 enclosure. Add some black paint and you get where this is going. It would be killer and probably around the same price if not a tad more.

But it wouldn’t fly, because for the legions of HD580/600/650 fans, we (yes I’m among you) have bias. It needed to go back in those old flaky, enclosures, not just for cost-saving but because of our visual and auditory bias.

The 660S is designed to sell, but also it really is a homage to one of the best headphones ever made. It’s awesome to know the Legend is going to live on.

Would love a pair, but need to get an HD540 and HD800 first.
 
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Nov 16, 2017 at 1:10 AM Post #1,107 of 8,970

pietcux

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That’s awesome to hear.

Similarly, the HD660S is not a replacement for the 700. The HD700 is a marvel in its enclosure combined and how it interacts with the driver. It creates incredible spaciousness that has a tinge of artificiality - natural with a bit of that modern Sennheiser sheen.



Warning: Sacrilege and non-conforming headphone thoughts ahead.



The 660S is a compromise rather than an evolution.



Before anyone crucifies me, imagine the 660S tuning in the HD700 enclosure. Add some black paint and you get where this is going. It would be killer and probably around the same price if not a tad more.

But it wouldn’t fly, because for the legions of HD580/600/650 fans, we (yes I’m among you) have bias. It needed to go back in those old flaky, enclosures, not just for cost-saving but because of our visual and auditory bias.

The 660S is designed to sell, but also it really is a homage to one of the best headphones ever made. It’s awesome to know the Legend is going to live on.

Would love a pair, but need to get an HD540 and HD800 first.
You should really get the HD660S before you speculate any further.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 1:50 AM Post #1,108 of 8,970

pietcux

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I am on a business trip this week. Took only the HD660S and the WM1A with me. I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonly Hearts Club Band and Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy yesterday evening. Both albums are with me since 1975. I know very note and every word by heart. This rig I use now presents the music in an incredible musicality. I am fascinated across the board. All instruments are perfectly rendered you have a good feeling of space, Love how dry the drums are rendered no peaks, no valleys in the spectrum it is all there, marvelous.
 
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