Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Dec 16, 2017 at 8:16 PM Post #1,576 of 7,903

headr

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Is it just me or are Tyll's opinions getting more and more sensationalist lately? Certainly I noticed with the Z1R review that he used rather extreme language to disparage the headphones, and now with the 660S he seems a bit over the top harsh. It almost comes across as if he is chasing drama instead of fulfiling the role as a measured and rational headphone evaluator.

Further, I find his usage of the term "grainy" to be downright mystifying. For a while now he seems to equate the term "grainy" with energy in the treble region. This is not the traditional usage of the term "grain". Grainy traditionally means distortion in the treble region, which typically comes across as a veil, hence "veiled sounding".

He begins the review by saying that 660 S have finally lifted the Sennheiser veil, and yet goes on and on about how grainy they are.

It comes across as Tyll co-opting terms to mean things that deviate from standard definitions. And the whole review reinforces what I've long suspected - that Tyll does not appreciate energy in the treble region, he may in fact prefer a distorted veiled treble which is not accurate (which would be the typical usage of "grain"), and further, he has almost confirmed as much by his preference for more treble roll off with respect to the Harman curve.

All in all, I chalk the entire review up to more Tyll drama rather than a serious headphone review. In terms of advice, if you have hearing and preferences with perfectly line up with Tyll, by all means, heed his advice. Otherwise, I find his recommendations to be deviating further and further from what the general public would consume and treat as general headphone advice, and as always, try before you buy is in full effect.

CanJam NYC is coming up in a few months. Great opportunity to visit NYC, enjoy some great cans, and actually use your own two ears.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 8:36 PM Post #1,577 of 7,903

donlin

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I think Tyll’s use of grain as an audiophile term is correct. When treble is overemphasized to give the impression of more detail there is a grain-like texture or roughness riding on top of the real treble energy. A veiled treble would be the opposite of grain where an unnatural smoothness is imposed over the real treble energy that takes away the texture that should be there.
 
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Dec 16, 2017 at 8:43 PM Post #1,578 of 7,903

franz12

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Is it just me or are Tyll's opinions getting more and more sensationalist lately? Certainly I noticed with the Z1R review that he used rather extreme language to disparage the headphones, and now with the 660S he seems a bit over the top harsh. It almost comes across as if he is chasing drama instead of fulfiling the role as a measured and rational headphone evaluator.

Further, I find his usage of the term "grainy" to be downright mystifying. For a while now he seems to equate the term "grainy" with energy in the treble region. This is not the traditional usage of the term "grain". Grainy traditionally means distortion in the treble region, which typically comes across as a veil, hence "veiled sounding".

He begins the review by saying that 660 S have finally lifted the Sennheiser veil, and yet goes on and on about how grainy they are.

It comes across as Tyll co-opting terms to mean things that deviate from standard definitions. And the whole review reinforces what I've long suspected - that Tyll does not appreciate energy in the treble region, he may in fact prefer a distorted veiled treble which is not accurate (which would be the typical usage of "grain"), and further, he has almost confirmed as much by his preference for more treble roll off with respect to the Harman curve.

All in all, I chalk the entire review up to more Tyll drama rather than a serious headphone review. In terms of advice, if you have hearing and preferences with perfectly line up with Tyll, by all means, heed his advice. Otherwise, I find his recommendations to be deviating further and further from what the general public would consume and treat as general headphone advice, and as always, try before you buy is in full effect.

CanJam NYC is coming up in a few months. Great opportunity to visit NYC, enjoy some great cans, and actually use your own two ears.

I disagree. I think he fairly gave a good shot on 660s. The point being made in his review is that 660s is not a significant upgrade to 600/650, rather it is a side grade. He still put on it 'STUFF WE LIKE'
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 9:02 PM Post #1,582 of 7,903

Charles E Flynn

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Dec 16, 2017 at 10:02 PM Post #1,583 of 7,903

BLacklWf

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Is it just me or are Tyll's opinions getting more and more sensationalist lately? Certainly I noticed with the Z1R review that he used rather extreme language to disparage the headphones, and now with the 660S he seems a bit over the top harsh. It almost comes across as if he is chasing drama instead of fulfiling the role as a measured and rational headphone evaluator.

Further, I find his usage of the term "grainy" to be downright mystifying. For a while now he seems to equate the term "grainy" with energy in the treble region. This is not the traditional usage of the term "grain". Grainy traditionally means distortion in the treble region, which typically comes across as a veil, hence "veiled sounding".

He begins the review by saying that 660 S have finally lifted the Sennheiser veil, and yet goes on and on about how grainy they are.

It comes across as Tyll co-opting terms to mean things that deviate from standard definitions. And the whole review reinforces what I've long suspected - that Tyll does not appreciate energy in the treble region, he may in fact prefer a distorted veiled treble which is not accurate (which would be the typical usage of "grain"), and further, he has almost confirmed as much by his preference for more treble roll off with respect to the Harman curve.

All in all, I chalk the entire review up to more Tyll drama rather than a serious headphone review. In terms of advice, if you have hearing and preferences with perfectly line up with Tyll, by all means, heed his advice. Otherwise, I find his recommendations to be deviating further and further from what the general public would consume and treat as general headphone advice, and as always, try before you buy is in full effect.

CanJam NYC is coming up in a few months. Great opportunity to visit NYC, enjoy some great cans, and actually use your own two ears.

I have opposite perspective on Tyll's. I love the fact he doesn't sugar coat or try too much to be politically correct. I also love the fact he is sometimes a bit over the top. Like you said, trusting your own ears is what matters. It's all personal at the end of the day. But, I find his reviews spot on with my experiences most of the time.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 10:08 PM Post #1,584 of 7,903

Pedro Oliveira

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Two things caught my attention.... leaner sounding and not as good as the the hd600 and hd650....
That does it for me.... going to try the hd650 before they go away or start going up in price.
Also i think i will keep my hd600 for now.... not that i loooooooooove them but if the hd660s is leaner sounding than the hd600 than i am definitly not going to like it.... i am a x2, hd25, momentum kind of guy so i like clear but full and engaging sounding cans.

Yep..... lets try the hd650 next.... although i am pretty happy with what i have right now (x2, hd25, hd600)....
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 10:24 PM Post #1,586 of 7,903

catscratch

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Tyll's the man. Maybe he doesn't tell you what you want to hear, but that doesn't make him a drama queen. He's in a scummy industry and he's one of the few who's survived trying to tell it like he thinks it is. Now how he thinks it is may not necessarily line up 100% with how you think it is, but it makes him no less remarkable for all that.

At the end of the day, don't just take Tyll's word, but do what he does. Use your head, and use your ears.

Yes, that other place does have a bit of a hivemind mentality to it, but small places always do. They're still doing great work over there, just bring your hazmat suit if you come to visit... and maybe a salt shaker.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 10:32 PM Post #1,587 of 7,903

franz12

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Keep in mind I do find their preferences do appear to run parallel to Tyll’s, which is ok....but there is a somewhat clubhouse mentality....and never mention “HD700”. : )
I have to disagree with this. They didn't like Ethers at all, while Tyll put them on WOF for a while.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 10:43 PM Post #1,588 of 7,903

AlanU

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Tyll's "smooth and resolving" of the Hd600 and Hd650 seems interesting. Interpretation of "resolve or resolution" will be different from individual to individual. Senn is in trouble if they drop the HD650 as the cult following will be disappointed.

The HD660 is a great different flavour for the Senn line. The organic analog flow of a planar is another "different" flavour. Not sure what Senn will do if they throw all of their eggs in one basket with the thinner sound of the HD660, hd700 and hd800 line for certain types of music.

Tube harmonics is my solution to smoothing out the Senn line now....... or for detailed demanding users need high end DAC's with good amplification.

I love this hobby :)
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 10:52 PM Post #1,590 of 7,903

franz12

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hmmmm I heard someone mention "scummy industry"...........

We will never know the real exchange of a manufacturer - reviewer relationship.

$$$$$$$ does interesting things.......

Credibility (or integrity) is currency for a reviewer. It is somewhat vulnerable in that it can be blown up with one or two incidents. Tyll somehow managed to survive for a long time. Hope he will not lose his credibility.
 

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