Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Dec 16, 2017 at 4:53 PM Post #1,562 of 9,585
..........The 660S is not a forgiving headphone, that's for sure, which depending on the source may explain the "grainy" assesment. I don't hear graininess, I hear detail and dynamics that aren't present in the HD600 and 650 (2 headphones I also love). .....

Don't think Tyll would have grainy sounding equipment....but he does like smmmmmoooootthhh.....after the 700s he may have an ingrained physiological dislike anything resembling a HD700 driver....lol.... : (

......again the HD700s were definitely brighter but the 650s were maybe smoother but IMHO grainier..... with my ears and equipment.
 
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Dec 16, 2017 at 4:56 PM Post #1,563 of 9,585
There's simply many anomalies and contradictions in the audiophile world. The most confusing thing I see is how much emphasis is put on certain headphone's being bloated in one region or another, or being veiled in another. Learn how to use an EQ!!!!!
My audiophilia doesn’t have me on a quest for the perfectly accurate/flat sounding pair of cans. Rather, I prefer the fun of discovery. Finding just the right headphone for a particular genre, album, track, or even just a section of a song is is a great way to enjoy one’s music collection over and over again. An EQ kind of ruins that for me and makes it difficult to regularly swap cans. But I'll admit I've spent better than a decade trying come up with the perfect EQ settings for my Porta Pros.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 5:01 PM Post #1,564 of 9,585
Don't think Tyll would have grainy sounding equipment....but he does like smmmmmoooootthhh.....after the 700s he may have an ingrained physiological dislike anything resembling a HD700 driver....lol.... : (

......again the HD700s were definitely brighter but the 650s were maybe smoother but IMHO grainier..... with my ears and equipment.
Apologies. I was referring to any grain present at the recording level (I wish he'd list example tracks). I thought he did do a column on his reference tracks, but I don't remember off the top of my head.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 5:30 PM Post #1,566 of 9,585
Thanks for posting the review, that guy is very matter of fact but I think Tyll’s drama is warranted in this case. For those of us that have been in this for a long time and have gone from the 580 to 600 to 650, there is a real emotional connection to this series. They were the first truly natural sounding dynamic headphones. Even with all the advancements in recent years they still stand with the best, so it is kind of a big deal. I can understand exactly what he was trying to express.

Very this.

These headphones just sound right. They're pretty much the only thing that makes me feel good about headphone hi-fi below the $1k mark today... and in general. Prices are going up, but hey, we still have the HD600/HD650, so it's all good.

Except that we don't have the HD600/HD650 apparently. Which is a huge blow to the whole god damn hobby. I guess it's also a market opportunity for someone else to step in and create something like the HD600/650, but IMO if somebody actually could have done that, they would have done it already. Pushing the prices ever higher and higher in some sort of apparent oligarchial bid to drive up the cost of the hobby only opens up the opportunity for someone to refuse to play that kind of game, undercut everybody, and deliver a superior value product. The fact that nobody seems to have copied the HD600/650 formula as well as Sennheiser to me just means that they can't.

I get why they introduced the HD660s. 300 ohm impedance headphones were the standard in the 80s when you used your headphone with a mixing console or an integrated receiver. Portable devices back then meant a boombox, not today's wimpy smartphones and tablets that couldn't drive a fly. So making sure that the Sennheiser sound is more accessible for everybody is a good move. But getting rid of an industry standard to make people buy a more expensive inferior version is anti-consumer.

Oh well, everything else in the world is falling apart, why not this hobby too. Burn, baby, burn!
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 5:38 PM Post #1,567 of 9,585
Very this.

These headphones just sound right. They're pretty much the only thing that makes me feel good about headphone hi-fi below the $1k mark today... and in general. Prices are going up, but hey, we still have the HD600/HD650, so it's all good.

Except that we don't have the HD600/HD650 apparently. Which is a huge blow to the whole god damn hobby. I guess it's also a market opportunity for someone else to step in and create something like the HD600/650, but IMO if somebody actually could have done that, they would have done it already. Pushing the prices ever higher and higher in some sort of apparent oligarchial bid to drive up the cost of the hobby only opens up the opportunity for someone to refuse to play that kind of game, undercut everybody, and deliver a superior value product. The fact that nobody seems to have copied the HD600/650 formula as well as Sennheiser to me just means that they can't.

I get why they introduced the HD660s. 300 ohm impedance headphones were the standard in the 80s when you used your headphone with a mixing console or an integrated receiver. Portable devices back then meant a boombox, not today's wimpy smartphones and tablets that couldn't drive a fly. So making sure that the Sennheiser sound is more accessible for everybody is a good move. But getting rid of an industry standard to make people buy a more expensive inferior version is anti-consumer.

Oh well, everything else in the world is falling apart, why not this hobby too. Burn, baby, burn!

I am not sure about this. This is an open can. I never brought my open can to a public space, not to bother other people. I am not sure to what extent portability is an important factor for an open can. If it is closed, I would understand.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 5:46 PM Post #1,568 of 9,585
............
Except that we don't have the HD600/HD650 apparently. Which is a huge blow to the whole god damn hobby. I guess it's also a market opportunity for someone else to step in a........

After almost two decades on the best seller list and the thousands of Massdrop HD6XXs that went out the door I'm sure there will be more than enough in general circulation available for many years to come.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 6:25 PM Post #1,569 of 9,585
Good to know....same boat....the 600/650s kept drawing me back in...love their tonal balance, fit..etc...and I really tried over the years ....but ....but...but....and off they went. Fingers crossed on the 660S.

I think you will quite enjoy the HD 660 S. Nothing beats personal listening and you seem to of had a similar experience with the HD 600/650, so you may very well enjoy the HD 660S as well. I’m a bit worried many may start jumping on a bandwagon and potentially overlooking these now.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 6:31 PM Post #1,570 of 9,585
I think you will quite enjoy the HD 660 S. Nothing beats personal listening and you seem to of had a similar experience with the HD 600/650, so you may very well enjoy the HD 660S as well. I’m a bit worried many may start jumping on a bandwagon and potentially overlooking these now.

for people who cannot audition this, risking $500 for 660s is hard to justify when you still can get 6xx at $200 at massdrop.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 6:37 PM Post #1,571 of 9,585
Dec 16, 2017 at 6:38 PM Post #1,572 of 9,585
He spoke of graininess, and the 650 being smoother. I think this is readily audible. How much it bothers is a matter of taste.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 7:29 PM Post #1,573 of 9,585
I don't care to elaborate in full because I am a bit burnt out on in-depth headphone write-ups, but I own the 580, 650, and 660S. To me, the 660S is technically superior to both the 580/600 and 650. There are differences in frequency response that will come down to personal preference, but in terms of technical performance (resolution, clarity, detail, etc.) the 660S wins, to me. I use them on the Lyr 2 with various tube setups, most 5670/2C51 models, can't comment on the scalability because I have what I have, but this feels very overdramatized and I suspect there is an aspect of nostalgia playing a part here. It would seem silly that a company with a respected engineering reputation like Sennheiser would replace/discontinue such a successful product without full confidence that what they were offering in the previous product's place would outperform it. Yes, audio is very subjective and things like "graininess" or "smoothness" cannot be well-accounted for with objective measurements, but I feel strongly the 660S is at least the better performer from a purely technical standpoint. In side-by-side listening, things like imaging, instrument separation, sound stage, clarity support this. I'm building a Bottlehead Crack + SB very soon, so I'm curious to see how they stack up against one-another on the OTL amps. I suspect the 580 and 650 will outperform the 660S given their higher impedence, hence why I've kept all three. As has been said before, anyone who is skeptical should find a way to listen to the headphones side-by-side and judge for themselves where their money is best spent. While the 650 will be discontinued, they will be widely available for several years to come.

Just my opinion, man.
 
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Dec 16, 2017 at 7:39 PM Post #1,574 of 9,585
I don't know if comparing the venerable HD650 to the HD660S is fair to either headphone...even though that's exactly what I did yesterday. They are similar sounding but the 660 appears to have been designed for a listener that wants a more engaging sound that is more compatible with portable sources such as phones, tablets and DAPS.

As Tyll eluded, the HD600/650/6XX were never really designed for portable on-the-go purposes. In my opinion these headphones were intended to be used with good desktop systems in order to achieve optimal audio performance from them. As many over the years have pointed out the original 600 series scale extremely well as your source and amplification improves.

The HD660S on the other hand seems to be focused on a consumer that may not want to be tethered to a home listening experience associated with audiophilia of old. Instead the 660S can provide good audio quality for both home and portable use. I suppose it's a logical marketing move but staying with the HD600 series physical design is puzzling.

Me, I have never considered using my HD650 or HD6XX as an on-the-go headphone because there is absolutely nothing portable about this headphone design. Also, with my associated equipment these headphones sound fantastic. If I want to listen to a different sounding headphone then I'll simply grab a different one that will satisfy that need.
 
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