[mysticstryk]

Going to pick up a balanced cable from impact audio cables here soon for my 650. Gotta be ready to try it on a Jotunheim. I've already got an adapter to turn it single ended in case I decide to stick with my Valhalla 2.

 

[Letmebefrank]

Going to pick up a balanced cable from impact audio cables here soon for my 650. Gotta be ready to try it on a Jotunheim. I've already got an adapter to turn it single ended in case I decide to stick with my Valhalla 2.

I was contemplating putting the 4 pin xlr on my impact audio cable but was worried about modifying it. I put it on a stock cable instead and I'm very pleased. Hd650 fed balanced from Momby/Jodie is bliss.

 

[mikoss]

Balanced 650 with a good balanced amp is hella good. 

 

[castleofargh]

 balanced amp vs single ended is just one tiny variable. even worst, for consumer audio, "balanced" can mean a bunch of different things.
I'm always annoyed with oversimplifications(because they so often lead to false claims). silver is better than copper, R2R is better than delta sigma, balanced is better than SE...  why not black case has superior sound than silvery colored cases for amps? I'm sure we can find 3 or 4 examples where it's true, and then just jump to the usual correlation=causation fallacy, and claim that black amps are better(or the opposite for that matter. if we're making up facts, better make them to fit our taste ^_^)?
 
all those who have decided that balanced was better, how did you come to such a conclusion? you tried 3 good balanced amps and decided that was a statistically significant sample that warrants generalization? ^_^
or worst, you tried the BA and SE on the same amp, which accumulates 2 very obvious problems:
/1 if the guy designed a balanced amp, he wants you to use it balanced and the SE is only there for convenience. so it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the balanced output was the better option. does it mean that this amp balanced is better than a good SE amp that was designed to be SE? of course not.
2/ the balanced output has twice the voltage, so switching from one to the other will always have the balanced output louder. as "louder is better" works very well on the psycho acoustic side of things, that is enough to honestly feel a superiority even if there wasn't one. unless the volume levels are matched, nothing can rationally be called conclusive.
 
when you really look at how someone comes up with an opinion about such overly simplified dichotomy, you usually realize that it might be worth keeping a more open mind about what is good and what isn't.

  because there will be crappy balanced amps, and crappy SE amps, I strongly advise people not to make purchase decisions based on oversimplifications. it's nice and easy, but if it isn't true, what's the point? a good device for a given job will be good if the sound coming from the hd650 is good(whatever your own definition of good is). how it was built shouldn't really matter outside of connectivity convenience IMO.

 

[audiojun]

Well balanced amps just mean the ground between Left and Right Channel isn't shared and that's about it.
 
Well of course there are amps that do more than just that, some amplifiers are differential and balanced, a differential amplifier that is differential from input to output will reject noise very well.

 

[nick77]

  Pad wear in, or possibly some driver burn in would change the sound a lot more dramatically than a cable. They are dynamic drivers, and I did find they had a bit of burn in myself (nothing as dramatic as some capacitors in other gear).
 
What is your chain going to the 650's? They also scale like mad... Depending on which amp you're using to drive them, I would recommend to anyone interested in purchasing a $300+ cable to instead stick with the stock cable, and invest in a better amplifier, and/or DAC. Tossing a 4 pin XLR onto the end of the stock cable is a worthy upgrade as well, if you have balanced gear. 
 
This is why others forgo upgrading from the (knowingly good) stock cable. FWIW, I do use different interconnects, and I've found that I have a preference myself, but I don't think that cost necessarily equals better sound- especially for cables.

I bought my HD650's slightly used with less than 500 hrs so I think their pretty broke in. My chain consists of Chord 2Qute (linear supply) C!Audio  VHP1 and VAC1 combo. I feel like what i've read many times the phones had a rather veiled presentation, the new cable just really opened them up. The veil is gone, the stock cord is okay but if you have a revealing system it is kinda killing the music. I was going to build my own out of Cardas wire but even that was rather expensive, decided to try a proven recipe instead. I know it makes more sense on $1000 pair of cans but it really brought new life to the HD650's. There on sale off Audiogon sometimes. I agree sometimes the money is better spent on your chain if its not resolute. 

 

[mikoss]

 balanced amp vs single ended is just one tiny variable. even worst, for consumer audio, "balanced" can mean a bunch of different things.
I'm always annoyed with oversimplifications(because they so often lead to false claims). silver is better than copper, R2R is better than delta sigma, balanced is better than SE...  why not black case has superior sound than silvery colored cases for amps? I'm sure we can find 3 or 4 examples where it's true, and then just jump to the usual correlation=causation fallacy, and claim that black amps are better(or the opposite for that matter. if we're making up facts, better make them to fit our taste ^_^)?

all those who have decided that balanced was better, how did you come to such a conclusion? you tried 3 good balanced amps and decided that was a statistically significant sample that warrants generalization? ^_^
or worst, you tried the BA and SE on the same amp, which accumulates 2 very obvious problems:
/1 if the guy designed a balanced amp, he wants you to use it balanced and the SE is only there for convenience. so it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the balanced output was the better option. does it mean that this amp balanced is better than a good SE amp that was designed to be SE? of course not.
2/ the balanced output has twice the voltage, so switching from one to the other will always have the balanced output louder. as "louder is better" works very well on the psycho acoustic side of things, that is enough to honestly feel a superiority even if there wasn't one. unless the volume levels are matched, nothing can rationally be called conclusive.

when you really look at how someone comes up with an opinion about such overly simplified dichotomy, you usually realize that it might be worth keeping a more open mind about what is good and what isn't.:wink_face:   because there will be crappy balanced amps, and crappy SE amps, I strongly advise people not to make purchase decisions based on oversimplifications. it's nice and easy, but if it isn't true, what's the point? a good device for a given job will be good if the sound coming from the hd650 is good(whatever your own definition of good is). how it was built shouldn't really matter outside of connectivity convenience IMO.

Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar. My comment is that it's worthwhile to terminate the stock cable with a balanced connector for amps offering both outputs. Most amps that have both available have more power on the balanced output... When properly implemented, more power usually results in better sound... I use a SE amp myself, but it's a great idea for anyone having that option.

I'm also curious... which R2R DACs have you heard, and can you list some amps that offer both connections where you prefer their SE output? Just wondering.

 

[davehg]

I was playing with my new-to-me WA22, running it SE first using an unbalanced source. It was underwhelming - sounded good for sure, but not where I expected the sound to be given the praise heaped on the WA22. I switched the digital source to balanced XLR cables, and for the HD650, it made a massive difference. These phones just sing with the WA22 using a balanced digital source - I also got great results running SE phono stage.
 
I also tried the LCD3's running both balanced and single ended headphone cables, and I can't say the difference was massive. I'd be curious about trying a set of balanced cables for the HD650 to hear the differences, but running SE headphone cables (but using a balanced digital source), it just works.

 

[mysticstryk]

Well implemented single ended amps are better than mediocre balanced amps and vice versa.

Typically if an amp offers both outputs then use the balanced, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily be better than a purely single ended amp.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

Well implemented single ended amps are better than mediocre balanced amps and vice versa.

Typically if an amp offers both outputs then use the balanced, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily be better than a purely single ended amp.

Yes, it's all about implementation. And auditioning.

 

[Rdrcr]

  Balanced 650 with a good balanced amp is hella good. 

 
Much agreed.  Very enjoyable.
 
Mike

 

[DivineCurrent]

  I bought my HD650's slightly used with less than 500 hrs so I think their pretty broke in. My chain consists of Chord 2Qute (linear supply) C!Audio  VHP1 and VAC1 combo. I feel like what i've read many times the phones had a rather veiled presentation, the new cable just really opened them up. The veil is gone, the stock cord is okay but if you have a revealing system it is kinda killing the music. I was going to build my own out of Cardas wire but even that was rather expensive, decided to try a proven recipe instead. I know it makes more sense on $1000 pair of cans but it really brought new life to the HD650's. There on sale off Audiogon sometimes. I agree sometimes the money is better spent on your chain if its not resolute. 

I read stuff like this, and wonder if it's just my ears, or I'm just using bright equipment. Since I've been listening to the HD 650, since almost 3 years now, I have never heard ANY hint of a veiled sound, and I have listened to the brightest of Beyerdynamics and AKGs. I have also tried the stock HD 600 cable and HD 650 cables, both sound exactly the same with them. And here's the thing: there's really no scientific evidence to support increased sound quality from a different cable, unless the previous cable you've been using was defective or had a bad connection. Look, I'm not saying the equipment you use doesn't matter, but I hold the objective view that everything in a sound system chain can be entirely explained by science, and that means if your cable does what it should, it will transmit that analog signal to your headphones un-distorted just like any other cable. 

 

[GryphonGuy]

Can I just put my 2 cents in on this hobby. Those hobbyists who cannot hear a difference in cables or equipment changes will have both a happy and cheaper experience with this audio hobby than those of us who CAN hear differences between cables and/or equipment. I am happy with this hobby but when I hear a difference that is more pleasing and desirable than my current setup then wheels start to turn and money is saved for a forthcoming purchase.

Can we please just understand that the personal outcomes from the hobby are as varied as the people pursuing this hobby and also the equipment used to make the music that we love to listen to.

 

[Odin412]

Can I just put my 2 cents in on this hobby. Those hobbyists who cannot hear a difference in cables or equipment changes will have both a happy and cheaper experience with this audio hobby than those of us who CAN hear differences between cables and/or equipment. I am happy with this hobby but when I hear a difference that is more pleasing and desirable than my current setup then wheels start to turn and money is saved for a forthcoming purchase.

 
Well said! I have to admit that I'm quite happy that there are a number of things that audiophiles tend to obsess over where I can't hear any difference at all:

1. ​Cables (USB/digital, interconnects, speaker, headphone)
2. CD vs. hi-res recordings
3. Different digital connections - USB, coax, optical
4. CD vs lossless ripped CD (not MP3 - that difference I can hear)

 
My hearing isn't as good as it used to be - I can't hear anything over 14kHz anymore, but the lack of any sonic differences (to my ears) saves me a lot of upgrade itches - any money! My experience with sonic differences are transducers first, amps second, DACs third any anything else is too small to care about. Result? A number of headphones (including HD 650), several amps, one DAC. Happy? Yes!

 

[jimmers]

  ... My experience with sonic differences are transducers first, amps second, DACs third any anything else is too small to care about. Result? A number of headphones (including HD 650), several amps, one DAC. Happy? Yes!

 
Re DAC, I bought a Schiit Bifrost Multibit purely because it met (at least) the spec. I had written up for myself years ago, wasn't expecting much improvement over various BB, Wolfson, Ess, etc. DACs, but it made a hell of a difference - I'm like you in the first part of your post  - cables, "Hi-res" etc. - but I couldn't avoid noticing the improvement especially using speakers.
 
Edit: Sorry if too far off topic, it was just the putting DACs last, which I did previously, can be a mistake - as I found out.
Of course it's great with my HD650 as well, but phones don't give me the "hologram in the room" sensation I now get with my speakers.