[Deftone]

Enjoy what you have and be happy with it

Staying on this forum doesnt help many people to do that though, i find people still like to read the threads even after purchasing something they love (including me) only to then get curious about the latest "life changing" audio products. This is where will power comes in to it i guess.

 

[JKDJedi]

Thank you for that explanation. I think I'm just over my head with all this audio stuff. It's a cool hobby but it's tiresome and expensive. I can't afford to buy a whole bunch of amps and DACs and try them all out until I find the right one for me. Maybe if I can miraculously find a decent paying job.

Or enjoy what you have now..

 

[dakanao]

You're asking this question the wrong way. It should be "Is an OTL (output transform-less) tube amp really worth it over solid state amps?" And the answer would be, "An OTL tube amp is not routinely or predictably better. But when a given high impedance headphone responds well to a high impedance amp, the results are things you can't get with SS."

Just last night I listened to a heavily modded HD650, the Jupiter Audio Research "JAR650," on 2 rather different amps:

• Woo WA3 (OTL tube design)
• And the Liquid Carbon v2

It sounds fantastic on each one, but doesn't sound the same on each. On the OTL there's a small but very good sounding increase in level/calm/balanced reproduction of frequencies, top to bottom. A little hard to describe, the but the HD650 sounds ruler-flat, controlled, and musically accurate on the Woo OTL.

The LC v2 is a SS amp clearly "voiced" to be somewhat warm & "tube-like" (and it's all that). On the LC v2, the HD650 doesn't sound conspicuously warmer. The bass might be a little bit deeper/more impactful, and the entire frequency range is a little less well controlled & damped...sound is a touch more exciting, for lack of a better word.

IMO the main differences between the sound on these 2 amps is that on the OTL, the HD650 is getting a high impedance source, while on the SS amp, it is not.

I've heard roughly similar results with 2 other high-impedance headphones on SS vs OTL (ZMF Eikon & Aeolus), where the OTL sound is somehow more controlled, damped, level.

The punchline of all this is anyone w/a high impedance headphone like the HD650 owes it to themselves to hear it on an OTL like the WA3 or Darkvoice. But the HD650 will also sound terrific on any competent SS amp (I've tried this HP on 5 SS amps--all sound great).

So perhaps this is the reason why the HD 650 sounds more present with the vocals on my laptops onboard soundcard vs the Chord Mojo, since the output impedance of an average onboard laptop is 200 ohm

 

[JKDJedi]

So perhaps this is the reason why the HD 650 sounds more present with the vocals on my laptops onboard soundcard vs the Chord Mojo, since the output impedance of an average onboard laptop is 200 ohm

Sounds really great of an iFi Black Label amp dac, and really special off a tubed amp.

 

[dakanao]

Sounds really great of an iFi Black Label amp dac, and really special off a tubed amp.

The Mojo is more refined in every single way as compared to my laptops output, like it should be for the price, except that the vocals have more presence on the laptop vs the Mojo, which I found very strange and dissapointing

 

[boblauer]

This is where will power comes in to it i guess.

The essence of financial survival in this hobby and this forum.

 

[JKDJedi]

The Mojo is more refined in every single way as compared to my laptops output, like it should be for the price, except that the vocals have more presence on the laptop vs the Mojo, which I found very strange and dissapointing

Even on high gain?

 

[dakanao]

Even on high gain?

Mojo doesn't have a gain switch. I've read that the output impedance is 0.075 ohm

 

[SilverEars]

So perhaps this is the reason why the HD 650 sounds more present with the vocals on my laptops onboard soundcard vs the Chord Mojo, since the output impedance of an average onboard laptop is 200 ohm

I'd expect warmth from high output impedance. Nobody experiencing warmth or wooley response from high output impedance? I would also expect bass to be a bit loose as well.

The thing is, 650/6XX is already a warm headphone, most cases anyways.

How are people's experience with high output impedance? Please let me know of contrary experiences, and what amp. I know OTL doesn't necessarily mean high output impedance.

 

[buke9]

Bottlehead Crack has a output impedance of roughly 120 ohms and I don’t find it has loose bass at all for me . Depending on the tubes used it is not real warm either . Tube amp doesn’t always mean it is warm take the Valhalla 2 with stock tubes is very bright to me.

 

[JKDJedi]

Bottlehead Crack has a output impedance of roughly 120 ohms and I don’t find it has loose bass at all for me . Depending on the tubes used it is not real warm either . Tube amp doesn’t always mean it is warm take the Valhalla 2 with stock tubes is very bright to me.

I concur also, tube amps add space, depth, and realism to the sound, not so digital sounding. Not better, just different (I'm biased toward the tube sound). And I like the difference a lot. And the tubed amp makes for a great conversational piece.
FYI: Darkvoice has an output impedance of 32-600ohms. And you can find some gems (NOS tubes) out there, I have $7 tubes to $50 tubes that sound awesome. All part of the hobby. I feel you have to have at least one tubed amp in your collection. If your an enthusiast audiophile, why not? Sure it might not be feasible to grab one now but it should be on your want list.

 

[megabigeye]

So perhaps this is the reason why the HD 650 sounds more present with the vocals on my laptops onboard soundcard vs the Chord Mojo, since the output impedance of an average onboard laptop is 200 ohm

This thread has a couple of posts by obobskivich that have a good explanation of how headphones and amplifier output impedance interact. Really should be required reading for anybody wondering about damping factor, output impedance, OTL amps, etc.
I really wish I had a deeper understanding of the science behind it.
Looking at the HD 650's impedance curve might help you understand what you're hearing.

 

[MacMan31]

I concur also, tube amps add space, depth, and realism to the sound, not so digital sounding. Not better, just different (I'm biased toward the tube sound). And I like the difference a lot. And the tubed amp makes for a great conversational piece.
FYI: Darkvoice has an output impedance of 32-600ohms. And you can find some gems (NOS tubes) out there, I have $7 tubes to $50 tubes that sound awesome. All part of the hobby. I feel you have to have at least one tubed amp in your collection. If your an enthusiast audiophile, why not? Sure it might not be feasible to grab one now but it should be on your want list.

Is there possibly any quality tube amps under $300? Or is something like the Darkvoice my best option?

 

[B0NES]

Is there possibly any quality tube amps under $300? Or is something like the Darkvoice my best option?

I’m waiting on that Massdrop Bottlehead Crack + SB drop

 

[JKDJedi]

Is there possibly any quality tube amps under $300? Or is something like the Darkvoice my best option?

You can find them super cheap on Ebay or Amazon, I choose Darkvoice because of the reviews and how they match so well with the Senheisers. If you don't mind building your own amp, (Bottlehead Crack) might be the best option, again, I'm super happy with the Darkvoice.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/darkvoice-336se.12324/reviews