[donato]

Hi, just curious is there a way to listen to movies using these, such as plugging my amp into a PS4 controller, and headphones onto the amp? And would a DAC be useful here?

Anyone use these for movies?

You would probably do well with a DAC. Connect it to the optical out from your PS4. I do this for all of my gaming on Xbox One (haven't fired up the PS4 in awhile, but it does have an optical out). It's a great way to go.

 

[Tuneslover]

Or how about this: Hearing acuity and frequency ranges vary from individual to individual. While it may not sound "veiled" to you, obviously it does to quite a few. The "Sennheiser Veil" is not a myth, it's simply the way some people hear these headphones. They aren't wrong, and neither are you.

Several years ago when I first listened to the HD650 at a local retailer the first thing I heard was the muffled high frequencies, or veil. I didn't care for this headphone and couldn't understand why it was so popular? About a year later I had an opportunity to hear the HD650 at an audio show. I can't remember what amps were used but I had a very good listening session on 3 different amps. I didn't even remember that earlier veil because these headphones sounded extremely good. A few months later I was a proud owner of the HD650. I bought several different amps and upgraded a couple of them over the years. I now have 3 excellent amps that allow the HD650's to strut their stuff. I just don't hear veil, instead they have a smooth top end that doesn't shriek yet has plenty of detail. A very enjoyable headphone. Soon I'll have an HD6XX too.

 

[JoeDoe]

Several years ago when I first listened to the HD650 at a local retailer the first thing I heard was the muffled high frequencies, or veil. I didn't care for this headphone and couldn't understand why it was so popular? About a year later I had an opportunity to hear the HD650 at an audio show. I can't remember what amps were used but I had a very good listening session on 3 different amps. I didn't even remember that earlier veil because these headphones sounded extremely good. A few months later I was a proud owner of the HD650. I bought several different amps and upgraded a couple of them over the years. I now have 3 excellent amps that allow the HD650's to strut their stuff. I just don't hear veil, instead they have a smooth top end that doesn't shriek yet has plenty of detail. A very enjoyable headphone. Soon I'll have an HD6XX too.

My journey is similar. I heard the HD650/HD600 a few years back and found the 600 listenable, but the 650 too warm and mushy. Had no desire to revisit until recently now that my desktop stack isn't changing and I've realized that what I've enjoyed about my current setup is it's smooth, yet detailed sound. With the secondhand price of HD650s, I decided to give them another shot. They arrived today and at first listen, I still found them just a touch too smooth up top, but a coin and spider mod later and these things are impressing quite a bit!

Hard to believe so much can be had for so little $$$!

 

[kotomikun]

After much deliberating, I decided to get these instead of the more expensive 660s. Since there's still heated disagreement over which is better, spending an extra $150-200 didn't seem like a great plan. My old, but still functional, phones are the oddball KRK KNS8400.

So far, I'm having mixed results. They sound good--very good. I see no sign of the mythical "veil" no matter what I plug them into. They just don't quite have the night-and-day improvement I was hoping for, I guess. Best-case, they seem about 50% better than my old ones, less than that when using the Sonarworks equalizer to flatten the KNS8400's weird frequency distribution. The software has much less effect on the HD650, since it's already so flat; it mainly just bumps the sub-bass up a bit.

Instrument separation (I hesitate to say "soundstage" because neither headphone feels very wide, especially compared to an HD579 I tried in a store) is the most obvious improvement--every source of sound feels distinct and easy to pinpoint on the HD650, while on the KNS8400 everything is more squished together. Maybe just because one is open-back and the other is closed. Texture, timbre, detail, or whatever you want to call it is also better with the 650; the difference isn't always noticeable, but individual instruments (or synth effects, or whatever) sound better, more defined. I wouldn't say there's more detail in general; I notice things I hadn't before in some songs, but going back to the KNS8400 those components are (usually) still audible, just less obvious. Though, maybe that's what people really mean when they say a headphone is more detailed? "Sparkly" effects seem a bit faster and clearer on the HD650... so yeah, definitely not "veiled." I can kinda hear where that idea comes from by using the equalizer to simulate a more treble-heavy headphone, but doing so makes the overall sound feel unrealistic and a bit grating.

I got a Magni 3 to play with since everyone insists these 300-ohm phones need amplification. At the moment, I'm classifying it as a cute toy that sounds exactly as good as my motherboard's Realtek chip. Louder, of course, but not better, and I was getting more than enough volume straight from my laptop (25% of maximum, with Sonarworks reducing the levels even further). Messed around with low/high gain, maxing out Windows volume so it's "bit-perfect" or whatever, didn't seem to change anything, other than loudness. I don't have an external DAC because I'm even more skeptical about those things. I'm sure all that is blasphemy to many of you, but I really can't hear a difference... though if anyone knows of something more specific to listen for, I could give that a try. The main problem may just be that I listen at extremely low volumes compared to most people, so I have no need for ultra-low distortion at painful loudness levels, or anything of that nature.

Still, I had a similar underwhelmed reaction after getting my KNS8400 a few years ago. Before my HD650 got here, I dug out my ancient Sennheiser eh350 (which I used to think were quite good) to compare with the 8400, and they sounded terrible. Similar to the Momentum 2.0 I found in a store, just really grainy and... well... veiled. So maybe I just need to get used to them. Or maybe break-in is a thing.

Footnote: The infamous "clamping" is there, but it doesn't seem that bad to me. The KNS8400 was much worse when I first got it.

 

[dannyvstheworld]

Just got my Massdrop HD 6XX and was happy listening last night. However I kept thinking about one thing: where is the "veil"? Even without a proper amp, it sounded really good, probably on the warmer and thicker side, but I definitely didn't feel the "veil", though not very transparent but it sounded natural to me.

Another thing that kept me wondering, when I'd heard everybody talking about how difficult to amp them, they were very good straight out of my Mojo and Pono, and that's before any proper burn in. So now I'm not sure about the amp thing. I usually listen at very low volume, so would a proper amp change them a lot, even at low volume?

And now I see why everybody loves (or hates) these phones, even after so many years. They're not as detailed as my other mid fi headphones, sub bass is missing, lack sparkle in treble.. but the tonality is very natural, absolutely non-fatigue, just let you sink in and listen to music.. When I opened the package last night I just wanted to check there's no defect, wasn't intended to do any serious listening before burn in, but instead I drained the battery of my PonoPlayer..

 

[DavidA]

@kotomikun , the DAC (Realtek chips are decent to really good IMO) on your mobo is probably not the issue for the lack of difference between the HD650 and your old headphone. I think the Magni3 is a great amp for the price but its not an amp I would use with the HD650 since its on the warmer side and the HD650 being a bit on the warmer side just don't go together very well to me. I would disable the Sonar Works software since it could be messing up the signal that is being outputted to the Magni3. And since you listen at what you consider very low volume levels (under 65dB I would guess) you might not really need an amp for the HD650. If anything I would send back the Magni3 unless there are brighter headphone or planar headphone you are possibly considering in the future. While I like the pairing of the HD650 & BH Crack a lot its also really good with a Project Ember, Asgard2 and Lyr2 but does sound a bit boring with lower end gear like my Fiio X1 and from any phone that I've tried.
The HD650 does sound better as your supporting gear gets better but its a personal preference on the sound signature that the individual likes so what I might consider boring someone else might say its a perfect/neutral/natural sound to them.

 

[warsfanbb8]

You would probably do well with a DAC. Connect it to the optical out from your PS4. I do this for all of my gaming on Xbox One (haven't fired up the PS4 in awhile, but it does have an optical out). It's a great way to go.

By optical out, do you mean the headphone jack on the controller, or something else on the console itself?

 

[kotomikun]

I think the Magni3 is a great amp for the price but its not an amp I would use with the HD650 since its on the warmer side and the HD650 being a bit on the warmer side just don't go together very well to me.

See, that's the thing. I got that amp because a lot of people recommended it specifically for the 650, because it's supposedly neutral-ish and slightly bright (or at least the earlier versions of Magni were?). But there's always conflicting opinions on amps, which reinforces my belief that they don't really do anything other than increase volume, potentially with less distortion. Tube amps seem more likely to make a difference, but only because the tubes color the sound in an odd way that some people prefer. As far as I know, Sonarworks can't mess up the signal (it automatically prevents clipping, which is pretty much the only way an equalizer can ruin audio), but I've mainly been testing with it disabled anyway because it only has a significant effect on the KNS8400.

I'll probably hold onto the amp for now, rather than try to send it back with a restocking fee. It is, if nothing else, cute. And probably not difficult to resell if someone else has more use for it.

(Edit: I do hear a difference between the new and old headphones, just not an earth-shakingly gigantic difference. And the KNS8400 is so rarely talked about that it's hard to determine how accurate my judgment is. Swapping between [computer -> HD650] vs. [computer/phone -> Magni -> HD650] is where I hear no difference, other than volume.)

 

[noobandroid]

By optical out, do you mean the headphone jack on the controller, or something else on the console itself?

look for the optical connector on the console

 

[kotomikun]

Update: I found my old Sansa Clip--REALLY old Sansa Clip, ~10 year old 1GB model, can't even hold a charge anymore so it has to stay plugged in to function. Did some tests running HD650 on the Clip and my laptop, just playing a song in 10-20 second chunks on one before switching to the other. I think there's a difference, slightly better bass and general clarity/separation on the laptop, but it's amazingly subtle and could just be due to imperfect volume matching. The Clip is less powerful volume-wise, but got about as loud as I'd ever want to listen at around 75%. Further testing between laptop and Magni, and I still can't detect any sound-quality difference between them. Note also that this is a ~5 year old generic Lenovo capable-of-gaming-but-not-marketed-as-such laptop.

Now, these aren't audiophile-grade recordings I'm using, merely 320kbps MP3s. But still. I'm becoming convinced that additional amping is pointless for these headphones. Maybe 15-20 years ago it made a big difference, but not anymore. Unless you want tube sound or hazardous volume levels.

 

[Zowie1]

I bought one of these in an auction for < $30 a year or two ago as I wanted something shorter than the standard cable and it was no dearer than the parts I needed to make one ( I liked the idea of silver plated in teflon).
It might have been a bit brighter, but I couldn't be bothered ABing them.
Mine was a little long at 2.1M(my error thought it was for a 1.2M), It had four wires all the way to the plug, so I converted it to balanced and shortened it and that's what I've used since I got the Jot.

Thanks for your answer! I think I'm going buy it and see if if makes any difference. I also prefer how it looks over the cable I'm currently using, so it will be an improvement even if the sound doesn't get better.

 

[DavidA]

See, that's the thing. I got that amp because a lot of people recommended it specifically for the 650, because it's supposedly neutral-ish and slightly bright (or at least the earlier versions of Magni were?). But there's always conflicting opinions on amps, which reinforces my belief that they don't really do anything other than increase volume, potentially with less distortion. Tube amps seem more likely to make a difference, but only because the tubes color the sound in an odd way that some people prefer. As far as I know, Sonarworks can't mess up the signal (it automatically prevents clipping, which is pretty much the only way an equalizer can ruin audio), but I've mainly been testing with it disabled anyway because it only has a significant effect on the KNS8400.

I'll probably hold onto the amp for now, rather than try to send it back with a restocking fee. It is, if nothing else, cute. And probably not difficult to resell if someone else has more use for it.

(Edit: I do hear a difference between the new and old headphones, just not an earth-shakingly gigantic difference. And the KNS8400 is so rarely talked about that it's hard to determine how accurate my judgment is. Swapping between [computer -> HD650] vs. [computer/phone -> Magni -> HD650] is where I hear no difference, other than volume.)

There is a noticeable difference between the Magni / Magni2 and the newest Magni3 to me, I've heard all 3 and the Magni3 is the warmest of the three but its not what I would call a "easy to hear" or "major" difference since a few of my friends who only use cheap ear-buds can't hear the differences. Since there is no way to use a quantified scale when it comes to sonic differences what you consider a slight difference may be considered a "major" or "earth shaking" difference to some.

Don't assume that only tube amps color the sound since even SS amps can / do color the sound and your belief that an amp only increases the volume is what most amp designers strive for, a wire with gain, but due to the different properties of various headphone designs and amp designs the interaction between amps and headphones is complex and our individual hearing, listening levels, genre of choice, quality of recording all play a role in how individuals will perceive how a headphone sounds.

 

[Tuneslover]

See, that's the thing. I got that amp because a lot of people recommended it specifically for the 650, because it's supposedly neutral-ish and slightly bright (or at least the earlier versions of Magni were?). But there's always conflicting opinions on amps, which reinforces my belief that they don't really do anything other than increase volume, potentially with less distortion. Tube amps seem more likely to make a difference, but only because the tubes color the sound in an odd way that some people prefer. As far as I know, Sonarworks can't mess up the signal (it automatically prevents clipping, which is pretty much the only way an equalizer can ruin audio), but I've mainly been testing with it disabled anyway because it only has a significant effect on the KNS8400.

I'll probably hold onto the amp for now, rather than try to send it back with a restocking fee. It is, if nothing else, cute. And probably not difficult to resell if someone else has more use for it.

(Edit: I do hear a difference between the new and old headphones, just not an earth-shakingly gigantic difference. And the KNS8400 is so rarely talked about that it's hard to determine how accurate my judgment is. Swapping between [computer -> HD650] vs. [computer/phone -> Magni -> HD650] is where I hear no difference, other than volume.)

Perhaps you are extremely accustomed to your other headphones sound signature and your specific Sonarworks setting with them. Not everyone that hears the HD650 for the first time sees the "heavens parting" (myself included). My suggestion is to take a bit of time with them so that your brain has an opportunity to get used to the 650's. I would recommend to you to put your KNS8400 away for a couple of weeks and listen exclusively to the 650's. Also, consider disabling sonarworks during this time. Perhaps keep your Magni 3 side-lined for a while too but after a few weeks re-introduce it to see if you notice any difference.

 

[kotomikun]

My suggestion is to take a bit of time with them so that your brain has an opportunity to get used to the 650's. I would recommend to you to put your KNS8400 away for a couple of weeks and listen exclusively to the 650's.

In a sense, I sort of feel like I already did that. I started the free trial of Sonarworks ~10 days before the HD650 got here, and my first reaction when hearing them was "this sounds exactly like the equalized version of the 8400." More listening and swapping between them revealed that the 650 does sound significantly better, I was just already used to the frequency response because, other than the lower bass, they naturally have the flat response that the software was adjusting my old ones to have. It's only been a couple of days, though, and I haven't had a huge amount of time for music-listening, so I'm not making any absolute judgements of it yet (and, again, it does sound great, just not mind-bogglingly great. Probably would sound mind-boggling, and/or veiled or confusing, to someone totally new to sound-quality-focused headphones.)

@DavidA - I don't doubt that there are extremely subtle differences even between solid-state amps, but I suspect it's a combination of minuscule differences that require careful listening for very specific things to become noticeable, and some amount of confirmation/expectation bias. How much of each, I really have no idea. Hearing is very subjective, and it's hard to sort out the real variations in hardware from everyone's subconscious desire to not be the lame-eared loser who can't hear the interesting sonic characteristics that all the cool people are talking about. Especially when scientific tests are so rare. Practically speaking, though, if it's this difficult to tell the difference between an amp and my laptop, then if there is a real difference it's probably not going to have any life-changing effects.

 

[DavidA]

@kotomikun, I think with time and listening to many different headphones, amps, and DACs your ears get a little more sensitive to subtle changes but I think that since we all have different scales on which to base differences we perceive it will be up to the individual to figure out their own scale in relation to another persons scale.

I do agree with what others say about just listening to one setup for a extended period since you get that sound signature "burned-in" to your audio memory and it makes it easier to hear differences but for me I've found that just switching quickly between headphones is another way that works for me since I have 2 DACs hooked up to 4 different amps and can switch between them quickly which makes comparisons easier in some ways.