[Kodhifi]

  I admittedly realize this may not be the best thread to ask this given people's love for the HD650 in this thread, but wondering if there is a 'normal' or recommended allocation of $1k+ budget b/w headphones, amp, and DAC.
 
New to headphones.  Started w/ Sennheiser HD650 for $300.  I've listened to them some with friend's FiiO E12, as well as as the iFi iDSD Micro, and through my Onkyo home stereo A/V receiver.  I really like the HD650 (though don't have much to compare them to except a few in-store listens).
 
From reading this thread, a lot of people obviously swear by the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball amp, and a general consensus that the HD650 thrives on tube amps.  I don't want to build the Crack and seems like I could get it for ~$500+ new assembled from reputable source or save a couple hundred bucks and get it used. DAC would obviously be extra.
 
I'm not at all opposed to go this route, but as a hp newb I thought the headphones would be the most important part of the equation and thus the most expensive.  I realize the HD650 can sound very good w/ a cheaper amp/DAC combo, but I think I will end up spending more in the long run if I go with a cheaper amp/DAC to start and then ultimately get the Crack anyways.
 
Is there a 'normal' or recommended allocation of budget between headphones, amp, and DAC?  Would I be better served by returning the HD650 and buying more expensive hp (possibly lower impedence) and less expensive amp? Or should I just be happy that the HD650 punches above its $300 price tag and go with an amp + dac combo that will likely cost 3x the cost of the headphones?

I approach purchasing decisions based on a min max philosophy, I want the most bang for my buck. If that means a $500 amplifier so be it. Sometimes it means a $250 DAC instead of a $500 DAC though. Or $300 HD650's instead of $1500 headphones.
 
I can tell you from experience that the headphone matters most, followed closely by the amplifier and ideally you want those two to work well together and have a synergy. The DAC is probably the least important for good sound.
 
I don't know what else you have in your collection but if we're only talking about 650's, then you should consider OTL tube amps. They excel at delivering power to higher impedance headphones like the 650 (but fail hard on orthodynamics due to their low impedance and high power demands).
 
Amongst tube amps, the tubes are the #1 thing that is affecting the sound. Tube amplifiers are incredibly simple devices, you hook a transformer up to power the tube, feed the tube an input signal to modulate the grid, and this produces an amplified modulated output on one of the triodes which then feeds another, larger, tube and repeats the process, then it goes to the headphone (in an OTL). The only other thing that will affect the quality of the audio in the OTL tube amps are the capacitors used for the tubes. As long as they are reliable well known capacitors, you're golden. I would expect the bottlehead to sound about as good as any other tube amp, provided the same components were used. The other variable is how good their power supplies are and if they are delivering clean and steady power to the amp.

 

[Krutsch]

   
I can tell you from experience that the headphone matters most, followed closely by the amplifier and ideally you want those two to work well together and have a synergy. The DAC is probably the least important for good sound.
 

 
I would agree with that, as long as you are feeding the DAC with a very clean (electrically), low-jitter source.

 

[James-uk]

I would agree with that, as long as you are feeding the DAC with a very clean (electrically), low-jitter source.

Name me a DAC with 'high' / audible jitter?

 

[JacobLee89]

Then essentially the ODAC is the only thing you'd need if you're using only USB.
Summit-fi Dac acquired!
 
Now time to hold fort and fend off upgradetitus like the devil.

 

[James-uk]

Then essentially the ODAC is the only thing you'd need if you're using only USB.
Summit-fi Dac acquired!

Now time to hold fort and fend off upgradetitus like the devil.

Exactly this . ODAC is better than our ears . It's bad for business but good for audiophiles

 

[DDDamian]

I think what some miss in the DAC question is the "A" part of it. Besides the right clocking (which is a thread on it's own!) there is the analog stage, and here is where a company can take a great chip and make it sing or stink.
 
DAC vendors rejoice!

 

[James-uk]

I think what some miss in the DAC question is the "A" part of it. Besides the right clocking (which is a thread on it's own!) there is the analog stage, and here is where a company can take a great chip and make it sing or stink.

DAC vendors rejoice!

I know it's frustrating that people don't see this! Odac and similar transparent dacs nail this and the specs prove it! One day they will understand like you and I.

 

[3083joe]

  I wouldn't plug this guy unless I truly believed in him 100%. Casper is able to make some of the finest cables quickly and at a fair price. Might want to send him a message if you have a precise length, connection type etc that you want. 

He is making mine as i post this, thanks for the recommendation 

 

[DDDamian]

I know it's frustrating that people don't see this! Odac and similar transparent dacs nail this and the specs prove it! One day they will understand like you and I.

Ouch - that begs some deep understanding which I humbly do not possess lol. But the DAC can colour sound quite a bit: Wolfsens are known for their mellow, warm sound, ESS for their dynamics and detail. Then add the caps and other analogue circuitry required on their outputs. Can affect things quite a bit.
 
How's life in Manchester? I used to pass through there every second weekend for two years when I lived in the UK for two years. Had to go from Lincolnshire to Wales to visit my dogs in quarantine there,,,, Will always remember stops in Manchester!

 

[Shaffer]

Exactly this . ODAC is better than our ears . It's bad for business but good for audiophiles

Put your hand over your mouth and try to sing. That's what the ODAC sounds like. The Modi, as well.

 

[Poimandres]

Ouch! I don't think that my clas db sounds like that.

 

[DDDamian]

Put your hand over your mouth and try to sing. That's what the ODAC sounds like. The Modi, as well.

Heh - I think that's the "A" in the DAC doing that - but honestly I possess neither device above, so will sit back and watch 

 

 

[James-uk]

Ouch - that begs some deep understanding which I humbly do not possess lol. But the DAC can colour sound quite a bit: Wolfsens are known for their mellow, warm sound, ESS for their dynamics and detail. Then add the caps and other analogue circuitry required on their outputs. Can affect things quite a bit.

How's life in Manchester? I used to pass through there every second weekend for two years when I lived in the UK for two years. Had to go from Lincolnshire to Wales to visit my dogs in quarantine there,,,, Will always remember stops in Manchester!

Manchester is great. I'm from Leicester in the Midlands but moved here because the Wife. Dogs in quarantine must of been tough! You reunited with them now I hope?! Love my dog and glad I've never had to do that (although clearly it's not a choice when needed and has to be done). she is a Staffordshire bull terrier. Smilar to American pit bull ie soft as crap , friendly , beautiful bread that just wants to love us stupid humans!

Back to dacs, I think as long as designed to be transparent and pass the benchmark tests then job done! I couldn't care less how it's done as long as my ears hear it right.

 

[JacobLee89]

A sarcastic quip suddenly becomes a hot topic of this HD650 thread.
 
In all seriousness, I feed my ODAC through a powered USB hub, so most of the "muffling" problems and other little noise issues are more or less non-existent.
I've also read that the Bifrost with all it's uber bits, don't do much better than the ODAC.
So......*shrug*.

 

[DDDamian]

Manchester is great. I'm from Leicester in the Midlands but moved here because the Wife. Dogs in quarantine must of been tough! You reunited with them now I hope?! Love my dog and glad I've never had to do that (although clearly it's not a choice when needed and has to be done). she is a Staffordshire bull terrier. Smilar to American pit bull ie soft as crap , friendly , beautiful bread that just wants to love us stupid humans!

Back to dacs, I think as long as designed to be transparent and pass the benchmark tests then job done! I couldn't care less how it's done as long as my ears hear it right.

It was fairly brutal on them: 6 months in a pen, but they had pups there, and I can honestly say I introduced the American Eskimo breed to the UK! The pups were snapped right up and apparently the breed did not exist there before. It was 20 years ago now lol. It seemed harsh and I (we) hated it, but I can understand not introducing rabies there. Cost me a fortune too. Every two weeks I would drive across the country and sit in their pen and feed them a whole cooked chicken lol. By the end I could see them giving up, and the day I went to get them out was magical. On a better note - I recall a pint well earned in Leicester!
 

  A sarcastic quip suddenly becomes a hot topic of this HD650 thread.
 
In all seriousness, I feed my ODAC through a powered USB hub, so most of the "muffling" problems and other little noise issues are more or less non-existent.
I've also read that the Bifrost with all it's uber bits, don't do much better than the ODAC.
So......*shrug*.

I missed the quip - but this is Head-Fi. Every comment is a bone to be chewed