[Tuneslover]

Has anyone tried to measure the impedance of the HD6XX? I noticed that the HD6XX is a bit more efficient (2-3dB) than my old HD650 and it actually sounds decent with a old 4th gen iPod touch or Fiio X1. It could be that a slight difference in the impedance of the HD6XX is making it sound a touch brighter, slightly more detailed bass and better dynamics.

Ruled out the cables since I swapped the cables around just to check.

I also wondered whether the HD6XX was a bit louder than my HD650 when I was comparing these headphones on my Lake People (with 2 headphone output) amp. So I decided to use my Radio Shack Sound Level Meter to compare loudnesses. I admit that I did not employ a very scientific method of comparison because I simply repeatedly moved the meter between headphones and observed the readout. Based on this method I didn't notice any obvious difference in readout in output levels. In the end I assumed no discernible loudness differences. However, the HD6XX did sound mildly clearer in the upper frequencies. Swapping ear pads between the headphones narrowed the auditory loudness difference but even then I still sensed a slightly clearer sound from the HD6XX.

 

[SilverEars]

I also wondered whether the HD6XX was a bit louder than my HD650 when I was comparing these headphones on my Lake People (with 2 headphone output) amp. So I decided to use my Radio Shack Sound Level Meter to compare loudnesses. I admit that I did not employ a very scientific method of comparison because I simply repeatedly moved the meter between headphones and observed the readout. Based on this method I didn't notice any obvious difference in readout in output levels. In the end I assumed no discernible loudness differences. However, the HD6XX did sound mildly clearer in the upper frequencies. Swapping ear pads between the headphones narrowed the auditory loudness difference but even then I still sensed a slightly clearer sound from the HD6XX.

According to Tyll's measurements, it takes slightly more power to output 90dB on the HD600 than the 650, and also slightly more on the 650 than the 6XX, but the differences between them are not all that significant. Look on the bottom right for power or voltage required to reach 90dB.

There is no relationship to impedance on how loud they get, but the real relationship is to the sensitivity of the headphone. HE6 is 50ohms, and much harder to drive than the HD6XX series at 300+ ohms.

The impedance graphs comes into play for damping factor, but if the output impedance is relatively low in comparison to the headphone's impedance, it shouldn't be an issue. That is the benefit to high ohmage headphones, the damping factor, not the loudness. For a typical output impedance, HD6XX series should not be effect due to having high impedance on the level of 300+ ohms. There shouldn't be a headphone output that comes even close to that level.

 

[mikoss]

Interested in hearing your thoughts, if you do go through with the KISS mod, @DavidA

I believe differences between 6XX’s and 650’s are fairly few and far between. Sennheiser has fairly strict QA/QC, but the odd ‘unicorn’ pair with slightly better distortion measurements seems to exist.

 

[DavidA]

Interested in hearing your thoughts, if you do go through with the KISS mod, @DavidA

I believe differences between 6XX’s and 650’s are fairly few and far between. Sennheiser has fairly strict QA/QC, but the odd ‘unicorn’ pair with slightly better distortion measurements seems to exist.

Still not sure about doing any mods to the HD650 or HD6XX, may just sell one or the other. I've listened to 3 different HD650 at the same time and didn't notice any differences so I agree that Sennheiser's QC is quite good but with the HD6XX QC is an easy place to reduce cost so like you said it maybe the odd "unicorn" pair.

 

[timjclark]

@timjclark, I don't think the HD6XX will change much due burn-in since I did compare them from 0 hours to 150+ hours (snip) were pretty much the same between the 2 headphones.

As for settings on the Ember I usually use the middle output resistance setting (35ohms) since it gives the best balance (snip) my favorite tube for the HD650 is a Telefunken 12AU7, a clean, clear dynamic sounding tube. FWIW I don't usually use the Ember with the HD650/6XX much since the BH Crack to me sounds just a bit more lifelike and is more engaging to me. (snip)

I've yet to hear a Kameleon so if you do get one I'd be interested in your impressions of it.

I did the (snip)ing to shorten the quote...

Thanks for the info on burn-in not really a big deal on the 6xx's. I did think mine sounded really great out of the box!

I moved my Ember output resistance to the middle setting now - am I crazy or should the bass feel gutsier on this setting? I'm listening to your local boy Jack Johnson - Sleep Through The Static. My best tube right now is a GE smoked chrome top 6DJ8 and I'm really happy with the high end sparkle of the 6xx's considering so many talk about it being recessed.

I've read lots of your preference for the BH Crack - I do need to get to a headphone show and check one out sometime. For now, the Ember is doing me pretty great for my first hp amp.

I'll definitely keep this thread updated if I do pop for a Kameleon. In convo with Jeremy he said better to go Kameleon than to tinker with tubes at this point since I have the 6DJ8 - I gotta see what the checkbook is looking like after the holidays.

Cheers!

 

[timjclark]

I did the (snip)ing to shorten the quote...

Thanks for the info on burn-in not really a big deal on the 6xx's. I did think mine sounded really great out of the box!

I moved my Ember output resistance to the middle setting now - am I crazy or should the bass feel gutsier on this setting? I'm listening to your local boy Jack Johnson - Sleep Through The Static. My best tube right now is a GE smoked chrome top 6DJ8 and I'm really happy with the high end sparkle of the 6xx's considering so many talk about it being recessed.

I've read lots of your preference for the BH Crack - I do need to get to a headphone show and check one out sometime. For now, the Ember is doing me pretty great for my first hp amp.

I'll definitely keep this thread updated if I do pop for a Kameleon. In convo with Jeremy he said better to go Kameleon than to tinker with tubes at this point since I have the 6DJ8 - I gotta see what the checkbook is looking like after the holidays.

Cheers!

oops. I've actually got an RCA 5814 chrome top in the Ember II right now.

And who doesn't like quoting themselves...

 

[DavidA]

I did the (snip)ing to shorten the quote...

Thanks for the info on burn-in not really a big deal on the 6xx's. I did think mine sounded really great out of the box!

I moved my Ember output resistance to the middle setting now - am I crazy or should the bass feel gutsier on this setting? I'm listening to your local boy Jack Johnson - Sleep Through The Static. My best tube right now is a GE smoked chrome top 6DJ8 and I'm really happy with the high end sparkle of the 6xx's considering so many talk about it being recessed.

I've read lots of your preference for the BH Crack - I do need to get to a headphone show and check one out sometime. For now, the Ember is doing me pretty great for my first hp amp.

I'll definitely keep this thread updated if I do pop for a Kameleon. In convo with Jeremy he said better to go Kameleon than to tinker with tubes at this point since I have the 6DJ8 - I gotta see what the checkbook is looking like after the holidays.

Cheers!

The output impedance does change the sound and while there is no "correct" setting I just like the middle setting since it does tighten up the bass without slightly rolling of the highs.

 

[439598]

are the 650s a bit more refined sounding than the 600?
I just got the 600 after the 650 and I much prefer the way it balances it sound, bass sits more towards the back and vocals are smooth without sounding in any way muffled , but I feel its less refined, less clean compared to the 650. the benefit of less bass presence is lost because I feel like the bass it bleeds into the mids more and just sounds a bit less controlled.

 

[mtmercer]

are the 650s a bit more refined sounding than the 600?
I just got the 600 after the 650 and I much prefer the way it balances it sound, bass sits more towards the back and vocals are smooth without sounding in any way muffled , but I feel its less refined, less clean compared to the 650. the benefit of less bass presence is lost because I feel like the bass it bleeds into the mids more and just sounds a bit less controlled.

I noticed the bass of the HD650 bleeding into the mids on the following chain at louder than normal listening levels for me: Modi multibit - Magni 3 - HD650. The bass bleed sounds more apparent when I compare the HD650s to my Aeon Flow Opens. Even though the AFOs are warm HPs, I do hot hear the bass bleed. When I use my better balanced amps with the HD650 (Jotunheim, AGD NFB 28.38), I hear less or no bass bleeding into the mids. This may be part of the saying that HD650's scale with better upstream gear.

I have also considered getting the HD600s to compare as well but have not pulled the trigger. Can you expand on what you mean by less refined, clean and provide any other observations you had when you compared the 600/650s?

 

[timjclark]

I noticed the bass of the HD650 bleeding into the mids on the following chain at louder than normal listening levels for me: Modi multibit - Magni 3 - HD650. The bass bleed sounds more apparent when I compare the HD650s to my Aeon Flow Opens. Even though the AFOs are warm HPs, I do hot hear the bass bleed. When I use my better balanced amps with the HD650 (Jotunheim, AGD NFB 28.38), I hear less or no bass bleeding into the mids. This may be part of the saying that HD650's scale with better upstream gear.

I have also considered getting the HD600s to compare as well but have not pulled the trigger. Can you expand on what you mean by less refined, clean and provide any other observations you had when you compared the 600/650s?

This is a fun subject. I've had my friends HD600's for about 6 months and my HD6xx's just arrived last week. I've put the 600's away for a week or so to get comfy with the 6xx's. Next week I'll pull the 600's back out and swap back and forth and see what my rig reveals about their differences.

Cheers!

 

[DavidA]

are the 650s a bit more refined sounding than the 600?
I just got the 600 after the 650 and I much prefer the way it balances it sound, bass sits more towards the back and vocals are smooth without sounding in any way muffled , but I feel its less refined, less clean compared to the 650. the benefit of less bass presence is lost because I feel like the bass it bleeds into the mids more and just sounds a bit less controlled.

I'd say the HD600 while slightly brighter than the HD650 is less smooth in the highs due to it having just a bit more grain in the treble or as you say "less refined" but I also agree with @mtmercer that how one perceives these headphones is also influenced by the supporting gear (DAC/amp) that is being used. FWIW there are some small differences between the HD650 and HD6XX and the amount they sound different is also dependent on the amp used from what I've found so far. My BH Crack seems to show the most differences between them while other amps like my Lyr2 and Project Ember don't show quite as much of a difference.

 

[igchy]

hi guys,

got my hd6xx from massdrop and thinking of plugging it into Onkyo DP-X1A because:
1) i'm going to move the setup around my house a lot, so mobility is a key for me;
2) i do have andriod environment in my house and onkyo will fit nicely;
from what i've read so far there is a concern that onkyo doesn't have enough power to drive hd6xx, so as a workaround i'm thinking utilizing balanced output, because Onkyo has 2.5mm 4-pole 32Ω ~ 600Ω for balanced output versus 3.5mm 3-pole 16Ω ~ 300Ω for unbalanced output.
so as far as I understand special cable required in this case.
will this one work https://www.amazon.com/Sukira-Balanced-Sennheiser-headphone-XDP-300R/dp/B075CHQFW8/ ?
are there any better all-in-one solutions in "below $500" price range?
will balanced cable help with the source power?

 

[DavidA]

hi guys,

got my hd6xx from massdrop and thinking of plugging it into Onkyo DP-X1A because:
1) i'm going to move the setup around my house a lot, so mobility is a key for me;
2) i do have andriod environment in my house and onkyo will fit nicely;
from what i've read so far there is a concern that onkyo doesn't have enough power to drive hd6xx, so as a workaround i'm thinking utilizing balanced output, because Onkyo has 2.5mm 4-pole 32Ω ~ 600Ω for balanced output versus 3.5mm 3-pole 16Ω ~ 300Ω for unbalanced output.
so as far as I understand special cable required in this case.
will this one work https://www.amazon.com/Sukira-Balanced-Sennheiser-headphone-XDP-300R/dp/B075CHQFW8/ ?
are there any better all-in-one solutions in "below $500" price range?
will balanced cable help with the source power?

In a pinch my old Fiio X3 and X3ii can drive my HD650 & HD6XX to fairly loud volume levels but both headphones do sound different / better with a desktop amp compared to the X3 & X3ii. The only way you will know if the DP-X1A is good or not in driving the HD6XX is to compare it to other DAPs or on other systems and remember that this is also your preference since what sounds good to me might not sound good to you. FWIW I normally use a BH Crack with the HD650 which is great amp in its price range ($500-1000, note that this price includes the extra cost of tubes and cap updates) but it does sound better to me on higher end amps like the Liquid Glass and EC Balancing Act but these are not portable so irrelevant to your current situation.

I would think that the 2.5mm balanced output of the DP-X1A would probably sound slightly better than the 3.5 SE output but you never know since some amps sound the same from the balanced and SE outputs, it really depends on the design of the amp if either output will sound better or the same.

The cable you linked to should work if the DP-X1A follows the standard T-R-R-S pin out: R-, R+, L+, L- (Fiio pin out) There is one reviewer that says it works with DP-X1A so you should be good.

If I were to get a DAP for portable use I would consider the Fiio X5 gen3, uses android and has a touch screen and at $400 not a bad price IMO.

 

[JKDJedi]

I noticed the bass of the HD650 bleeding into the mids on the following chain at louder than normal listening levels for me: Modi multibit - Magni 3 - HD650. The bass bleed sounds more apparent when I compare the HD650s to my Aeon Flow Opens. Even though the AFOs are warm HPs, I do hot hear the bass bleed. When I use my better balanced amps with the HD650 (Jotunheim, AGD NFB 28.38), I hear less or no bass bleeding into the mids. This may be part of the saying that HD650's scale with better upstream gear.

I have also considered getting the HD600s to compare as well but have not pulled the trigger. Can you expand on what you mean by less refined, clean and provide any other observations you had when you compared the 600/650s?

Good to know! I'm currently powering the HD6XX w/ the iDSD Black Edition ( amphttp://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/ ) (on high power setting, as the normal power setting left the vocals recessed a little, vs the more forwardness in high power setting) and before that played with them on my (cough) Monoprice Semi Tubed amp ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...sb-dac-bluetooth-and-preamp-out-16154.827231/ ) just for kicks, and that was an interesting experiment, a huge upgrade in sound and quality on the iDSD. So I can relate to hearing/experiencing the cans improvement as the amps improve and am excited to hear what these will do with your mentioned Audio-GD amp that will be coming in next week. I think I got the 11.28 version of the amp, and discussion is that these amps are the cats meow, the end game for most enthusiasts like ourselves. Not to many headphones out there that can do that. I too had to break/burn these baby's in for a good 50 hours (with pink noise from YouTube) as my first impressions of these were to tie a stick of dynamite to them. Glad I gave them another chance before selling them on Ebay. The Vocals On TheSe are AWESOME. Listening to Thom Yorke Essentials playlist on Tidal at the moment.....PURE BLISS. I was wondering if these were missing anything from the originals and glad that these sound "Better"? i meant DIFFERENT Right guys?

 

[igchy]

thank you the great reply, @DavidA!
i'm going to try both fiio and onkyo with and w/out balanced cable.
also, will find desktop amp to try and get convinced to ditch portable solutions