[RiseFall123]

Hi,

I need to listen to my HD650 in my bedroom, so no laptops and too many stuff, just Tidal>iPhone>HD650. But I need to put something between the mobile and the cans to obtain good sound experience.

So please, help me to choose one of the three scenarios, I also need your advices for each scenario, hope somebody will help me up because it's too much time that I turning around without a solution:

SCENARIO 1
iPhone>Tidal>Cable>Oppo Ha-2 SE

Here what I need to know is what cable to use and if the Oppo has juice enough to feed the HD650. This is my favourite scenario because it's the most easy.
PS: I excluded the Mojo not because seem too dark for the HD650 but because people complains about "noise issues" when too close to the mobile.

SCENARIO 2
iPhone>Tidal>Apple Camera Kit>Dragonfly>Cable>Amp

Here what I need to know is what cable to use from Dragonfly to the Amp (I know that should be mini-jack to RCA but what one?).
Here also we need to choose an amp, I can put it in a table near the bed so it's not a big issue of space. The budget for the amp is 200/300 euros.

SCENARIO 3
iPhone>Tidal>Cable>Asus Xonar Essence One

I have the above dac in my main setup that I find excellent with the HD650. In such case I can move it to the bedroom but I now I have two issues:

1) what cable I can use from the iPhone to the DAC (this has USB, spdif and optical inputs)? I doubt that there will be a solution here, but I'm not sure.
2) what dac I will use for my main setup? My amp is a Roksan K3 while my speakers are B&W 685 s2.

Looking for advices but if the Oppo could do the trick I will go for it.

 

[Letmebefrank]

Hearing is very subjective, and it's hard to sort out the real variations in hardware from everyone's subconscious desire to not be the lame-eared loser who can't hear the interesting sonic characteristics that all the cool people are talking about.

This can work in reverse as well. For example: Someone can't hear the differences that do exist, because they are "the lame-eared loser" as you put it (I would be more inclined to say "less sensitive to detail") so it can't be their ears, because they have great hearing, it's been working for them just fine for however many years, so it must be the gear makes no difference.

Honestly, I wish I couldn't hear the differences. I wish I could be okay with a slightly tizzy sound in my home theater and not spend 2 hours diagnosing the problem while my wife, who couldn't hear the problem at all, goes to bed. I wish I could just use the little centrance dacport slim or my fulla 2 and sell my desktop amp/dac rig, but there is such an obvious difference.

The biggest difference in sound to me that is improved in the HD650 is the layers of detail. With proper amplification and a good R2R dac the layers of sound are so distinct its just incredible to hear. Second is the highs, which can sound like hot trash to me from most dacs with the HD650. With my little sennheiser px100-ii, which have an almost identical response curve to the HD650s, I don't notice the bad treble from my phones built in dac. With the HD650s it's completely unlistenable, because the details of that harsh treble are laid bare before your ears.

Anyway, this isn't meant to convince you, because we all hear differently, it's just to give you a different perspective.

 

[stansmiths]

Someone can't hear the differences that do exist, because they are "the lame-eared loser" as you put it (I would be more inclined to say "less sensitive to detail") so it can't be their ears, because they have great hearing, it's been working for them just fine for however many years, so it must be the gear makes no difference.

How would I be able to determine that I am "less sensitive to detail"? I am probably going to audition some cans and see if I can tell the difference I should be able to audition some PM-3's and M40X's. I think that would be ideal... My HD6XX's should be coming anytime soon so I think those are a nice trio to test out my hearing on lmao.

 

[kotomikun]

This can work in reverse as well. For example: Someone can't hear the differences that do exist, because they are "the lame-eared loser" as you put it (I would be more inclined to say "less sensitive to detail") so it can't be their ears, because they have great hearing, it's been working for them just fine for however many years, so it must be the gear makes no difference.

Well... I mean, that's not so much reversed, more just the standard perspective for audiophiles. I know the issue isn't literally my ears, because (at least outside of music) I have overly-sensitive hearing; I can hear the alternating electronic interference from my laptop charger when it's in sleep mode (it changes frequency as the light blinks). Not with headphones on... through the air, from several feet away. What I don't have is lots of experience with audio equipment and their subtle characteristics; so it's certainly possible that, to someone with more experience and/or training, the differences are really obvious.

What makes me skeptical is that, whenever I read about a blind test of audio gear, the claimed variations in sound either disappear completely or become much harder to detect than the experimenters expected. (Not so for different headphones, which have huge variations that pretty much anyone can pick up on; and anyway it's pretty difficult to do a blind test with something you have to put on your head, since you can recognize it by feel). When that's not the case it usually turns out that the volume was slightly higher on the "better" system. It's well-known that there's some snake oil in this hobby--$7000 USB cables and other nonsense--but where the snake oil ends and the real improvements begin hasn't really been established. The most successful snake oil never gets revealed as such. This whole mystery made headphone shopping quite the experience.

Is there something specific, like a certain sound in a certain song, that's especially obviously different on the HD650 between a decent amp and a generic headphone-out?

 

[DavidA]

Hi,

I need to listen to my HD650 in my bedroom, so no laptops and too many stuff, just Tidal>iPhone>HD650. But I need to put something between the mobile and the cans to obtain good sound experience.

So please, help me to choose one of the three scenarios, I also need your advices for each scenario, hope somebody will help me up because it's too much time that I turning around without a solution:

SCENARIO 1
iPhone>Tidal>Cable>Oppo Ha-2 SE

Here what I need to know is what cable to use and if the Oppo has juice enough to feed the HD650. This is my favourite scenario because it's the most easy.
PS: I excluded the Mojo not because seem too dark for the HD650 but because people complains about "noise issues" when too close to the mobile.

SCENARIO 2
iPhone>Tidal>Apple Camera Kit>Dragonfly>Cable>Amp

Here what I need to know is what cable to use from Dragonfly to the Amp (I know that should be mini-jack to RCA but what one?).
Here also we need to choose an amp, I can put it in a table near the bed so it's not a big issue of space. The budget for the amp is 200/300 euros.

SCENARIO 3
iPhone>Tidal>Cable>Asus Xonar Essence One

I have the above dac in my main setup that I find excellent with the HD650. In such case I can move it to the bedroom but I now I have two issues:

1) what cable I can use from the iPhone to the DAC (this has USB, spdif and optical inputs)? I doubt that there will be a solution here, but I'm not sure.
2) what dac I will use for my main setup? My amp is a Roksan K3 while my speakers are B&W 685 s2.

Looking for advices but if the Oppo could do the trick I will go for it.

What is your reason for deciding you need an amp? If its just volume then I would go with a DAP like the Fiio X5 gen3, or one of the many other DAPs in the $300-500 since it would be a simpler solution without additional cables to connect things. I do have a iPod which has a nice interface so I can see the appeal of using the iPhone (GF has one) as a transport but for sound quality even a cheap Fiio X1 sounds better to me and it can drive the HD650 to my listening levels but its not as engaging/dynamic as when connected to my UD-301 + BH Crack.

 

[435279]

I'm due to receive a pair of HD6XX's from Massdrop very soon. I would like to ask your recommendations for a portable amp.
My DAP is a Onkyo DP-X1 and at 75mW at 32 ohms (unbalanced) I fear it will be under powered for the HD6XX. I like the Oppo HA-2Se. But it's possibly borderline on being under powered also. Anyone have any suggestions on something better in the same price range (doesn't have to include a DAC). Maybe the FiiO A5?

The new iFi Nano BL drives the HD650 very well, as tested by me at the weekend. Battery life may be an issue for you though, I didn't test battery life with the HD650, but I only get around five hours with other more sensitive headphones, so its going to be somewhat less than that.

 

[RiseFall123]

The new iFi Nano BL drives the HD650 very well, as tested by me at the weekend. Battery life may be an issue for you though, I didn't test battery life with the HD650, but I only get around five hours with other more sensitive headphones, so its going to be somewhat less than that.

I am not concerned about battery because it will site aside me at home in my secondary hp room.

Now i will check it better, hope it will work with iphone.

 

[snafu1]

The new iFi Nano BL drives the HD650 very well, as tested by me at the weekend. Battery life may be an issue for you though, I didn't test battery life with the HD650, but I only get around five hours with other more sensitive headphones, so its going to be somewhat less than that.

Thanks. I was unaware of this brand. I've looked at the Nano BL and I have a question for you. What's your take on the feature they call "S-Balance". To quote them, they claim " Dual-Mono Headphone amplifier with 3.5mm TRRS balanced wiring all the way to the amplifier, despite the amplifier being single-ended this delivers all the benefits of balanced wiring."
Hmmm, this sounds a bit like snake-oil to me. Common sense seems to dictate that this can't really work if both channels are sharing a common ground on the headphone cable.

 

[435279]

Thanks. I was unaware of this brand. I've looked at the Nano BL and I have a question for you. What's your take on the feature they call "S-Balance". To quote them, they claim " Dual-Mono Headphone amplifier with 3.5mm TRRS balanced wiring all the way to the amplifier, despite the amplifier being single-ended this delivers all the benefits of balanced wiring."
Hmmm, this sounds a bit like snake-oil to me. Common sense seems to dictate that this can't really work if both channels are sharing a common ground on the headphone cable.

That question is a bit off topic for this thread, pop over the Nano BL thread, where that question was recently discussed.

 

[Krutsch]

...
I don't have an external DAC because I'm even more skeptical about those things. I'm sure all that is blasphemy to many of you, but I really can't hear a difference... though if anyone knows of something more specific to listen for, I could give that a try. The main problem may just be that I listen at extremely low volumes compared to most people, so I have no need for ultra-low distortion at painful loudness levels, or anything of that nature.
...

If you ever get the opportunity to listen to a good DAC, you will change your mind.

On the low volume point: the HD-650s do NOT scale linearly with volume. In other words, IMO, they sound their best when being driven hard/loud. It's a real weakness of my favorite headphone, but the 650s are not good for low-volume listening.

For me, I find Grado to really perform well when I am background listening at very low volume. There are many others to choose.

 

[kotomikun]

If you ever get the opportunity to listen to a good DAC, you will change your mind.

I'd definitely like to try the HD650 out on some crazy-high-end equipment to see if they really do get a lot better; but since I don't know anyone who owns stuff like that, I'm probably not going to get the chance to. And when it comes to DACs, I mostly agree with the theory that cheap ones are primarily for reducing electronic noise from your computer, and expensive ones (multibit, etc.) are (intentionally?) colored, creating the illusion that they sound better. Digital technology has come a long way since these headphones came out; having a dedicated device just to convert digital to analog seems unnecessary to me.

Supposedly one of the strengths of more expensive headphones is that they can get extremely loud without distorting, so they'd sound... er... more better than cheaper ones if you listen really loud. But my "threshold of pain" is apparently 20-30 dB below average.

I'm liking the HD650 more after a bit more listening; it's hard to quantify because it feels like the main subjective improvement is... clarity? My old headphones sound muffled, more like headphones and less like magical sound-projectors, by comparison. (And they sure didn't sound like that before I got the HD650!) Haven't retried the amp yet, though. I feel like I can't tell what difference it makes, if any, without something really specific to pay attention to.

 

[Krutsch]

I'd definitely like to try the HD650 out on some crazy-high-end equipment to see if they really do get a lot better; but since I don't know anyone who owns stuff like that, I'm probably not going to get the chance to. And when it comes to DACs, I mostly agree with the theory that cheap ones are primarily for reducing electronic noise from your computer, and expensive ones (multibit, etc.) are (intentionally?) colored, creating the illusion that they sound better. Digital technology has come a long way since these headphones came out; having a dedicated device just to convert digital to analog seems unnecessary to me.

Supposedly one of the strengths of more expensive headphones is that they can get extremely loud without distorting, so they'd sound... er... more better than cheaper ones if you listen really loud. But my "threshold of pain" is apparently 20-30 dB below average.
...

What separates DACs, where I've been able to discern the difference, likely has more to do with the analog output section and attention to power management (i.e. mitigation of electrical noise).

Distortion effects, in my experience with mid-range headphones, are more a function of the amp's topology. For example, my low impedance (32 ohm) Grado RS-2i distorts very quickly when used at higher volume on my relatively high impedance OTL tube amp. Same thing happens with my 70 ohm Sony MDR-Z7. I can take these same 'phones and connect them to a Lehmann solid-state amp and literally turn the volume all the way to the right and hear zero distortion (although it becomes quite loud).

 

[gefski]

I'd definitely like to try the HD650 out on some crazy-high-end equipment to see if they really do get a lot better; but since I don't know anyone who owns stuff like that, I'm probably not going to get the chance to. And when it comes to DACs, I mostly agree with the theory that cheap ones are primarily for reducing electronic noise from your computer, and expensive ones (multibit, etc.) are (intentionally?) colored, creating the illusion that they sound better. Digital technology has come a long way since these headphones came out; having a dedicated device just to convert digital to analog seems unnecessary to me.

Supposedly one of the strengths of more expensive headphones is that they can get extremely loud without distorting, so they'd sound... er... more better than cheaper ones if you listen really loud. But my "threshold of pain" is apparently 20-30 dB below average.

I'm liking the HD650 more after a bit more listening; it's hard to quantify because it feels like the main subjective improvement is... clarity? My old headphones sound muffled, more like headphones and less like magical sound-projectors, by comparison. (And they sure didn't sound like that before I got the HD650!) Haven't retried the amp yet, though. I feel like I can't tell what difference it makes, if any, without something really specific to pay attention to.

Actually just the opposite - cheap dacs send lots of noise along with the music (not audible as noise but as a lack of transparency) and really good dacs are LESS colored.

Reminds me of when I was in retail hifi years ago. Like pulling teeth to get someone to spend $ on a good phono cartridge to extract musical information from the record.

 

[castleofargh]

If you ever get the opportunity to listen to a good DAC, you will change your mind.

On the low volume point: the HD-650s do NOT scale linearly with volume. In other words, IMO, they sound their best when being driven hard/loud. It's a real weakness of my favorite headphone, but the 650s are not good for low-volume listening.

For me, I find Grado to really perform well when I am background listening at very low volume. There are many others to choose.

what defines "a good DAC" in this nice armchair statement? if it's one that changes my mind, you're cheating.

 

[Krutsch]

what defines "a good DAC" in this nice armchair statement? if it's one that changes my mind, you're cheating.

That's clever

In my experience, as you move up the chain, DACs start to sound very similar (or the same). But at the low end, I've experienced a lot of variation in the equipment I actually own.