[gefski]

I doubt I've ever met an 'average' human', especially from the relevant subset that obsesses over music, or the sub-subset that obsesses over gear, but I do take your point. It's a very messy world, and people are funny.

I also wouldn't overlook that confirmation bias works both ways, that an average human Not expecting a difference could ignore, miss, minimize or deny a phenomenon that, given the necessary measurements, could be quantified, if only in a well-equipped lab.

If it were necessary to float our cables with helium, sacrifice 3 virgins and a bottle of Scotch to get our rock on, I'm sure we'd find a way.

Hmmmm, helium floated cables with no dielectric at all to mess with the signal, provide me a link to those!

 

[a-LeXx]

When it comes to hearing, people are very poor at their judgement. Hearing is influenced a lot by our brains and the expectation bias is very real. Even if you know it‘s real, and you know you are tricked by your brain, you cannot defeat the illusion...

https://slate.com/human-interest/20...e-hearing-da-when-you-see-ga-and-hear-ba.html

So, just looking at a nice expensive cable makes you perceive ‚better‘ SQ.

 

[G0rt]

Hmmmm, helium floated cables with no dielectric at all to mess with the signal, provide me a link to those!

Happy to, in exchange for 3 virgins and a bottle of Scotch...

 

[a-LeXx]

To share that HD600 love - this is my original 14 years old HD600 in my semi-mobile setup that I use around the house. Ipod touch into DFR into Fiio A5. Pure bliss...

 

[dakanao]

It's probably a 'simple' matter if measuring the Right thing(s.)

The 600 cable terminates in a 3.5mm connector, which plugs into a 6.3mm adaptor. The 650 cable lacks this mechanical and chemical discontinuity, which with oxidation and metal fatigue might even be expected to vary over time.

For example. Or dielectric changes as plasticizers leach between layers of insulation. Or random strand breakage from flexure.

Anything which introduces nonlinearities like oxide junctions, or impedance bumps, should produce a measurable effect, possibly an audible one.

Probably an audible one, given complex waveforms and interactions with other inherently nonlinear devices like amps and dynamic transducers.

Only in an imaginary, ideal world is a pure resistance actually pure, or a simple measurement actually simple.

I once knew a physicist, Dr John Magan, whose doctoral thesis added a remote decimal place to Ohm's Law itself. The Real real world is a fabulously messy place.

Would strand breakage have a permanent effect on the sound in the cable? If so, what would be different in the sound?

 

[dakanao]

Yep - funny how our brains work when we introduce known factors - yet if we take away the knowledge about change, we can’t tell the difference. Expectation bias at its finest . Doesn’t matter though - if the 650 cable gives you enhanced pleasure, regardless of its actual audibility - then use it I say.

Is it possible for you to measure electromagnetic inference noise (EMI) or radio frequency (RF) noise of particular cables? I think that's where mostly a difference comes in. The more electrical noise the cable picks up, the more artificially brighter and thinner it'll sound.

That's how I've experienced the HD 600 cable to the 650, and now Mogami mini star quad.

 

[Brooko]

Is it possible for you to measure electromagnetic inference noise (EMI) or radio frequency (RF) noise of particular cables? I think that's where mostly a difference comes in. The more electrical noise the cable picks up, the more artificially brighter and thinner it'll sound.

That's how I've experienced the HD 600 cable to the 650, and now Mogami mini star quad.

Possibility I guess - would show as added distortion. You’d need decent equipment to measure it though - a set-up like Jude’s. I’d love to see him measure something like that, and I’d be willing to bet it’s below the level of audibility anyway.

 

[G0rt]

Would strand breakage have a permanent effect on the sound in the cable? If so, what would be different in the sound?

Permanently intermittent in a sense, depending how much it's flexed. Given the purity of OFC and OCC and so on conductors these days, oxidation shouldn't be an issue unless or until contaminants from the insulation layers have their way.

In the old days, corrosion inside kinked cables could form rectifying junctions and the broken strands become little antennae injecting RF from passing CBers and local broadcast stations into sensitive electronics, including pulsating DC.

In any case, I'd expect noise and distortion to be the ultimate result. Enough breakage could change the reactance or even the resistance of the cable, but you'd probably replace it long before you notice much difference in the frequency response.

 

[MacMan31]

So it looks like the HD600 has been updated. At least in terms of how it looks. https://old.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/d744lk/the_brandnew_2019_sennheiser_hd600/ Anyone know where I could purchase them?

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I went back to my friend’s place yesterday and stayed most of the night listening to my 600 via his different tube amps. I was very interested in seeing if anything had changed since last and if I indeed would come out on the other end feeling wholly different about the 600 and how it hooks up with different amps...most especially now that I wasn’t listening blind.
Yet the Cayin HA-300 and the Valhalla 2 still ended up on top...much to my own satisfaction!
The 600 sounds wonderful with a solid state amplifier - heck some times I prefer it like that...but when you start plugging it into things with tubes it’s as if it opens up a portal inside those cups - a wormhole to an exciting almost fiery place with sonic fireflies and musical embers floating on the airwaves. Yet it loses none of it’s endemic values - the detail, timbre and natural tone still come across beautifully...though now with extra umphh and gusto incorporated into, especially, the outer rims of specific sounds that ebb and flow in that oh so daydreamy way that I have come to love so dearly.

The 600 au naturelle is sort of like the grown up Clapton.
The 600 au tubes though is like Clapton back when he was juicing and all around mad as moccasins.
There’s artistic control found in both eras of his career, but ultimately it’s the early wild days that gave us those freak out of the blue moments of sheer unhinged musical power - y’know the ones that on occasion can feel like a mistake yet in the right hands the music metamorphoses and jolts into this transcendental plain.

Edith: What is difference between the HA-300 and the Valhalla 2 you might be asking?
To these ears it’s to do with presentation. Whereas the HA-300 makes the 600 sound more ‘meaty’ and ‘muscular’, the Valhalla takes on a more serene and ethereal approach. At first I thought it was less detailed and more ‘smeared’ than a solid state, yet what I’ve later come to realise is that I’d been deceived. The Valhalla is tricky. It starts out sounding a little ‘difuse’...yet when you really get your head around it’s presentation it tightens up the reigns and the difuse character from before is somehow magically conjured into this extraordinary holographic soundstage. All the natural detail of the 600 remains intact...it’s just moved ever so slightly out in the perimeter, shimmering and glistening.
Personally I think it’s down to taste as to which one of these amps one prefers. Hell I can just as easily picture folks opting for the Mainline or Lyr 3 instead. The fact remains though: the price gap between the little Schiit amp and the others here is big to rather hefty, and if all you’re getting for an extra 1000+ worth of dollars is a different flavour and/or presentation...is it really worth pursuing?
Speaking entirely for myself here, but I’d much rather advise newcomers to the hobby, or just regulars wanting to ‘upgrade’, that they’ll get far more for their money investing in new music. The upgrade naturally occurs as you get better recorded albums
The 600 will of course reveal all of this in it’s usual brilliant way...doped up or sober.

 

[dakanao]

Permanently intermittent in a sense, depending how much it's flexed. Given the purity of OFC and OCC and so on conductors these days, oxidation shouldn't be an issue unless or until contaminants from the insulation layers have their way.

In the old days, corrosion inside kinked cables could form rectifying junctions and the broken strands become little antennae injecting RF from passing CBers and local broadcast stations into sensitive electronics, including pulsating DC.

In any case, I'd expect noise and distortion to be the ultimate result. Enough breakage could change the reactance or even the resistance of the cable, but you'd probably replace it long before you notice much difference in the frequency response.

So you wouldn't notice a difference in sound in a quality OFC cable, if you would bend the cable a bit too much on accident?

 

[G0rt]

So you wouldn't notice a difference in sound in a quality OFC cable, if you would bend the cable a bit too much on accident?

I probably wouldn't, but my ears aren't especially golden.

Even moderate damage is probably inaudible to most, unless you're able to create transients by moving the cable around.

Events tend to be more readily discernible than steady states, even degraded ones.

 

[bagwell359]

Would strand breakage have a permanent effect on the sound in the cable? If so, what would be different in the sound?

If you know about it - almost for sure.

If you don't know about it - almost for sure not....

Actually it depends on the strand count. If it's 8 or less, maybe, if it's like 18, I seriously doubt it.

 

[god-bluff]

Does anyone else like the old marble look better? Maybe it's just grown enough on me

I do!!! Classic...edit...

... and no storage box... And no longer made in Ireland?!?!

 

[god-bluff]

The HD650 cable makes the sound dull on the HD600. I AM NOT a cable believer, but in this case the difference was obvious when I compared.

Spot on. Totally agree. The 650 cable is dreadful and I never believed a cable could make a difference!?!? The cable might well be at least 50% of difference between the 600 and 650.