[bikerboy94]

  Most decent amps have distortion levels far below our ability to perceive. One thing to look out for is transient distortion on peaks. This is rarely tested for or revealed to us. For most headphones and amps, IMO this bit about scaling is highly overrated.

Maybe with test equipment you might find some distortion. None is audible on E12 at any level or the E6 at safe levels. Portable amps have come along way.
 

 

[StanD]

 
Maybe with test equipment you might find some distortion. None is audible on E12 at any level or the E6 at safe levels. Portable amps have come along way.
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

Yet, many people make believe they can hear things that are not humanly possible. The marketing geeks just love that.

 

[bikerboy94]

I love it when people look at the graphs and think they can hear the measurements.

 

[yangian]

 
What do you mean by fully drive. If you mean loudness. Louder than you should with out ear damage. I never get more than 1/3 of the volume control. Even my E6 will get to unsafe levels. Sound quality won't be the same as a high price amp but its very good.

Not loud. I mean fully bring SQ potential of 600 into play. I didn't mean >$1000 amplifier is better. I just mean an amplifier which can bring 600 into its full ability. So relative to such an amplifier, what level of e12.

 

[StanD]

  I love it when people look at the graphs and think they can hear the measurements.

If they only knew how lousy we are at hearing distortion levels We can't tell the difference between 0.1% THD and 0.001% THD.

 

[bikerboy94]

 
Not loud. I mean fully bring SQ potential of 600 into play. I didn't mean >$1000 amplifier is better. I just mean an amplifier which can bring 600 into its full ability. So relative to such an amplifier, what level of e12.

Its all so subjective hard to put a % number on difference.

 

[CADCAM]

Yea that's right my HD600 with Little Dot MK3 sounds sublime but information about Voskhod,GE or Mullard tubes on the rolling thread are outdated(try to read last pages),there are better tubes for LD MK3/MK4-i use 6N6P-IR+EI-6HM5 yugoslavian tall bottle

Thanks for the tip bobbyblack! I received the Yugo's today (tall bottle) and they are smooooooth! Definitely different than the Voskhods but in a good way. Reminds me of that vintage tube sound. The Voskhods are quick, dynamic and rockin' while the EI is musical and buttery smooth and I like it. Listened to John Petrucci & Jordan Rudess (An Evening With) and it was fantastic. Also did a little Lee Ritenour tribute to Wes Montgomery and it was also delicious! The HD600 sounds glorious out of them and I can't wait to try my DT880, it could be just what the doctor ordered as sometimes the DT880's highs can get aggressive and I'm thinking the EI tube could smooth them out a bit. Anyone with a Little Dot thinking of trying a different tube should give them a try, inexpensive and really great sounding. Thanks again for the recommendation! 

 

[rhythm is life]

  If they only knew how lousy we are at hearing distortion levels We can't tell the difference between 0.1% THD and 0.001% THD.

What about frequency response though? I've seen a couple measurements showing the E12 with a 1 dB variation between 20 and 20 kHz. Is that enough to be audible? I was considering the E12 but ended up getting the E11K as I will mostly be using it outdoors with my AKG K545. The E12 would be nice to use around the house with the HD600, but like I said before my normal listening volume with the E11K is less than 1/2 volume. Also, I haven't seen anyone discuss the E12's crossfeed switch. Seems like a nice option to have when I don't have access to a software crossfeed plugin. 

 

[bobbyblack]

Thanks for the tip bobbyblack! I received the Yugo's today (tall bottle) and they are smooooooth! Definitely different than the Voskhods but in a good way. Reminds me of that vintage tube sound. The Voskhods are quick, dynamic and rockin' while the EI is musical and buttery smooth and I like it. Listened to John Petrucci & Jordan Rudess (An Evening With) and it was fantastic. Also did a little Lee Ritenour tribute to Wes Montgomery and it was also delicious! The HD600 sounds glorious out of them and I can't wait to try my DT880, it could be just what the doctor ordered as sometimes the DT880's highs can get aggressive and I'm thinking the EI tube could smooth them out a bit. Anyone with a Little Dot thinking of trying a different tube should give them a try, inexpensive and really great sounding. Thanks again for the recommendation! 

No problem,im happy you like it,just give them 50 hours and after that switch back to Voskhods and compare them again!

 

[Phishin Phool]

 
What about frequency response though? I've seen a couple measurements showing the E12 with a 1 dB variation between 20 and 20 kHz. Is that enough to be audible? I was considering the E12 but ended up getting the E11K as I will mostly be using it outdoors with my AKG K545. The E12 would be nice to use around the house with the HD600, but like I said before my normal listening volume with the E11K is less than 1/2 volume. Also, I haven't seen anyone discuss the E12's crossfeed switch. Seems like a nice option to have when I don't have access to a software crossfeed plugin. 

I tried the crossfeed option in Jriver (all settings from mild to extreme) and in every case I found it to be HORRIBLE it absolutlely destroyed any concept of soundstage or imaging and made even my best headphones sound like $2 generic earbuds from a dollar store.

 

[Tuco1965]

Yeah I didn't care for any setting of the crossfeed in JRiver either.

 

[StanD]

 
What about frequency response though? I've seen a couple measurements showing the E12 with a 1 dB variation between 20 and 20 kHz. Is that enough to be audible? I was considering the E12 but ended up getting the E11K as I will mostly be using it outdoors with my AKG K545. The E12 would be nice to use around the house with the HD600, but like I said before my normal listening volume with the E11K is less than 1/2 volume. Also, I haven't seen anyone discuss the E12's crossfeed switch. Seems like a nice option to have when I don't have access to a software crossfeed plugin. 

 
The FR curve for the E12 is below. I seriously doubt that once can call it anything less that flat. Decibels are not linear, so 1 dB is not very noticeable and as you can see from the below graph, the E12 has no such problems. Look at the flat curve, not the one for bass boost. The FR up top is flat and at the bottom end it starts to gently roll off below 100 Hz and doesn't reach anything worth even considering about until 30 Hz or below.
Crossfeed is overrated and was probably intended for some early recordings that did weird things for exaggerating stereo. I never use it with an amp or software.

 

[rhythm is life]

I agree that JRiver has a poor crossfeed implementation. I've tried a bunch of different crossfeeds and keep going back to bs2b. It does muddy the sound to some extent but using a low shelf EQ compensates for the change in frequency response. There will always be give and take with crossfeed, for me it makes songs with extreme stereo separation sound less fatiguing but it does alter the sound, even if you attempt to compensate for it. No crossfeed = songs sound more lively, crossfeed = soundstage is more centered, songs are less fatiguing and smoother, for lack of a better term.
 
I think I should give the E12 a try. I'm lucky to live near NYC so I can just drop by B&H or AC Gears and check it out. The bass boost is a definite improvement over the E11K. I liked the 2-position bass boost on the E11 a lot more. I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music, and every once in a while I really like to let it rip, so to speak. The Extreme Bassheads here on Head-Fi love the E12. 

 

[Phishin Phool]

The improved bass boost was one of the reasons for me choosing the e11 non-k old model. I don't mind flat / neutral / analytical cans but I also love my fun DT990's increased bass on many recordings so if I want a bass boost I can have it. Wonder if  boosted bass makes the hd600 sound closer to the hd650. If I don't like it I can turn it off. The hd600 has me going back and listening to a lot of music I haven't heard in a while which is great. I have a ton of music and going back and hearing a bunch of it again is fun  especially since a lot of it sounds totally different. Same thing  happened to me when I installed my large 2ch and surround system in my HT/Listening room. 

 

[StanD]

  I agree that JRiver has a poor crossfeed implementation. I've tried a bunch of different crossfeeds and keep going back to bs2b. It does muddy the sound to some extent but using a low shelf EQ compensates for the change in frequency response. There will always be give and take with crossfeed, for me it makes songs with extreme stereo separation sound less fatiguing but it does alter the sound, even if you attempt to compensate for it. No crossfeed = songs sound more lively, crossfeed = soundstage is more centered, songs are less fatiguing and smoother, for lack of a better term.
 
I think I should give the E12 a try. I'm lucky to live near NYC so I can just drop by B&H or AC Gears and check it out. The bass boost is a definite improvement over the E11K. I liked the 2-position bass boost on the E11 a lot more. I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music, and every once in a while I really like to let it rip, so to speak. The Extreme Bassheads here on Head-Fi love the E12. 

I find that the bass boost on the E12 starts a bit too high in frequency and interferes a little with the mids. I prefer using a parametric EQ with Neutron or some other graphic EQ with different player software that has sliders at 31 and 60 Hz.