[Oktyabr]

I last listened to Senns a few years ago, when I was trying to find a replacement for my K701s, which I loved the sound of but found VERY uncomfortable due to the bumpy headband.  They sounded great and more similar than different.  I think the DT990s and the HD650s come closest to what I remember of the K701 "sound", but the HD600 were probably the best sounding, no matter what I threw at them.  I've been eager to hear a pair of HD598 vs the HD600 and possibly the HD650s before I buy a pair of DT990 Pro but so far none of the local shops carry all three (four).  And this is coming from someone who is arguably an AKG fanboy.  

Here is a *fun* website to play with.  It must not be taken too seriously because no matter what differences you hear, they are not the differences between THOSE headphones but rather those headphones through whatever you are listening to the samples through.  I played with it a bit through my ATH-M50s and realize that in "real life", those cans are going to be brighter and less bassy because of it... but it's still fun, if you have some time to kill and the curiosity of a cat (be sure to skip around):

http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/reviews/headphone-shootouts/open-back-reference-headphones


 

 

[Aradea]

No, it's slightly laid-back, but definitely not dark.

So what does "dark" means here in head-fi?

 

[Aizura]

So what does "dark" means here in head-fi?

The opposite of bright.
So, a headphone that sounds dark has rather subdued treble, compared to the mids and bass. This description does NOT apply to the latest HD600 IMO, which is dead neutral, I even found it rather bright, definitely brighter than HD25-1 for example.

 

[Aradea]

Thanks man.. For a while I think it was related to the background hehe

 

[madwolfa]

Thanks man.. For a while I think it was related to the background hehe

 
Black is the right word here, not dark I guess. 

 

[StanD]

  The Sennheiser veil is an old myth. The HD600's are called neutral because they are just that. Enjoy your HD600's.

 
 

The veil isn't really a myth, people may hear a veil coming from other headphones, I believe what is attributed to the veil has to do with the HD 600's rather soft, non-grainy, and smooth treble which does take time to adjust to. Most dynamic headphones are quite grainy in the treble so it can be quite a shock to people going from other headphones to the HD 600 and HD 650 which are much less grainy in the treble than most headphones in its price range with a laid back presentation on top of it. Only Beyers seem to be cleaner in the treble at the price range for dynamic headphones(though generally brighter and sharper due to the Beyer peak).

If it isn't real, it's a myth. Smooth treble without nasty peaks in my books is not a veil. I hear neutral, nothing veiled.

 

[Aradea]

If people thinks that it is veiled, perhaps it is "less open" than other HP? Maybe people can relate to it than the term "veiled"

 

[StanD]

If people thinks that it is veiled, perhaps it is "less open" than other HP? Maybe people can relate to it than the term "veiled"

I believe the misnomer, "veiled," came about when the HD600's came out about 19 years ago when headphones leaned towards treble. The HD600 being neutral seemed to many to have a veil, which is not true. Well, 19 years later the HD600 is still going strong and those other headphones are gone from the scene, what does that tell you?

 

[blse59]

My theory is whether you hear the veil or not is a brain thing. After reading the last couple of pages with people mentioning the 'veil', I plugged in my headphones again and started listening and I started hearing it. It's amazing how your brain can affect what you hear. My impression of these headphones when I first got them is that the sound is sublime and I stand by that because I listened to it without any ideas swirling in my head about the sound.

 

[StanD]

  My theory is whether you hear the veil or not is a brain thing. After reading the last couple of pages with people mentioning the 'veil', I plugged in my headphones again and started listening and I started hearing it. It's amazing how your brain can affect what you hear. My impression of these headphones when I first got them is that the sound is sublime and I stand by that because I listened to it without any ideas or expectations.

Can't fool me, I'm not suggestible. Although it can be hard to resist expectation bias.

 

[BobJS]

  Can't fool me, I'm not suggestible. Although it can be hard to resist expectation bias.

 
Everyone is suggestible and can be fooled.  I thought you would know better.  The best one can hope for is to be cognizant of one's own susceptibilities.

 

[sicko]

Just buy them. If you then think they're veiled, do the foam mod and you'll have an even brighter pair of cans.

 

[StanD]

   
Everyone is suggestible and can be fooled.  I thought you would know better.  The best one can hope for is to be cognizant of one's own susceptibilities.

Some more than others. I must resist, must resist, must resist, must resist......

 

[kman1211]

   
 
If it isn't real, it's a myth. Smooth treble without nasty peaks in my books is not a veil. I hear neutral, nothing veiled.

True, but people definitely do hear something akin to a veil at times coming from other headphones. The HD 650's is smoother in it's treble than the HD 600, I'm one of those weird people that find the HD 650 is clearer and more natural sounding than the HD 600 though. The HD 600 sounds slightly grainy overall and etched in the treble in comparison to my ears. The HD 600 does sound slightly muffled in comparison to the HD 650 to my ears. After spending time with my HD 600 and my friends HD 650 I decided I'm going to buy the HD 650 as the slight increase in clarity, depth, refinement, and cleanness won me over. I never once found the HD 650 veiled when I listened to it, but I have with the HD 600 on some occasions, especially when coming from more refined headphones or on certain systems. The HD 600 is a great headphone and one of my all time favorites, but I do accept criticism about the headphone and I have my own criticisms about the headphone.
 
I'm curious why people are so defensive when it comes to the HD 600 sound and the mention of a veil. A lot of people mention hearing the veil, so something is definitely going on. I'm also wondering why people who don't find cables to make a difference attack those who find cables improve the sound for them as if they are personally offended by the mention of it.

 

[StanD]

  True, but people definitely do hear something akin to a veil at times coming from other headphones. The HD 650's is smoother in it's treble than the HD 600, I'm one of those weird people that find the HD 650 is clearer and more natural sounding than the HD 600 though. The HD 600 sounds slightly grainy overall and etched in the treble in comparison to my ears. The HD 600 does sound slightly muffled in comparison to the HD 650 to my ears. After spending time with my HD 600 and my friends HD 650 I decided I'm going to buy the HD 650 as the slight increase in clarity, depth, refinement, and cleanness won me over. I never once found the HD 650 veiled when I listened to it, but I have with the HD 600 on some occasions, especially when coming from more refined headphones or on certain systems. The HD 600 is a great headphone and one of my all time favorites, but I do accept criticism about the headphone and I have my own criticisms about the headphone.
 
I'm curious why people are so defensive when it comes to the HD 600 sound and the mention of a veil. A lot of people mention hearing the veil, so something is definitely going on. I'm also wondering why people who don't find cables to make a difference attack those who find cables improve the sound for them as if they are personally offended by the mention of it.

I'm an Electrical Engineer and don't believe in cables but am not offended by those who believe. Sometimes different people interpret the same words differently.