Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread
Apr 10, 2011 at 9:13 PM Post #256 of 22,296

spookygonk

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Thinking of trying a replacement cable for my HD600s and there's a couple on the 'bay that are cheap, possibly too cheap...
 
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-600-580-540-HD25-/390290899896
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable...896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adf2683b8
  1. PCA-65-Z6 (US-made 6N-OFC line of zero noise)
  2.      Material: Silver-plated
  3.      Specifications
  4.      Line Body material: Imported U.S. 6N high purity OFC silver twisted-pair wire;
  5.      Length: 2.5M
  6.      Price: $62.99 / £38.50 delivered
 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-HD600-/390290901858
  1.  The wire base adopts the Japanese spiral quad line structure to reduce the  radiation clutter and the interference to the signal line. Provide excellent resistance to EMI and RFI so as to reduce radiation clutter, polyethylene insulation reduces the electrical conductivity in order to compensate frequency response characteristics; more than 94% high-density braided shielding to shield the electromagnetic noise effectively. Each wire, twisted together by 40 especially fine 0.08mm copper wire, has especially good durability.
  2.  Price: $45.99 / £28.20 delivered
 
Either of these two worth a punt?
 
 
Apr 10, 2011 at 9:32 PM Post #257 of 22,296

BlackbeardBen

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Quote:
Thinking of trying a replacement cable for my HD600s and there's a couple on the 'bay that are cheap, possibly too cheap...
 
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-600-580-540-HD25-/390290899896
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable...896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adf2683b8
  1. PCA-65-Z6 (US-made 6N-OFC line of zero noise)
  2.      Material: Silver-plated
  3.      Specifications
  4.      Line Body material: Imported U.S. 6N high purity OFC silver twisted-pair wire;
  5.      Length: 2.5M
  6.      Price: $62.99 / £38.50 delivered
 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-HD600-/390290901858
  1.  The wire base adopts the Japanese spiral quad line structure to reduce the  radiation clutter and the interference to the signal line. Provide excellent resistance to EMI and RFI so as to reduce radiation clutter, polyethylene insulation reduces the electrical conductivity in order to compensate frequency response characteristics; more than 94% high-density braided shielding to shield the electromagnetic noise effectively. Each wire, twisted together by 40 especially fine 0.08mm copper wire, has especially good durability.
  2.  Price: $45.99 / £28.20 delivered
 
Either of these two worth a punt?
 


lol, EMI and RFI are the same thing....  You do not need to worry about them anyway - the HD 600 and HD 650 cables are already coaxially shielded, and EMI occurs in very low levels and has absolutely zero audible effects for pretty much anything but un-amped turntable signals in anything but the most extenuating circumstances.
 
The insulation reduces the conductivity of the wire?  lolwut? No!  And you don't want lower conductivity anyway!
 
Thicker insulation will increase the capacitance, but unless they're purposefully trying to color the sound (i.e. not be transparent) by making it way way too thick (and thus increasing the capacitance to a significant level), it's not going to make any difference.
 
In other words, those salesmen/women are out there to make you think that there's a technical reason to buy their cables by impressing you with "sciencey" sounding language and incorrect or irrelevant arguments that ignore the most important foundations of science.  Just like all the other "tweako-cultists", to borrow a term from The Audio Critic.
 
 
Apr 11, 2011 at 10:43 PM Post #259 of 22,296

tdogzthmn

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The only real reason to get an after market cable is aesthetics and durability. Money is better spent on an amp, source, or..... music! Which many seem to place second to their gear. I have owned two after market cables and the "improvements" were always very minor if any. I hear larger impacts with tube rolling than with cables.
 
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Apr 12, 2011 at 6:28 AM Post #260 of 22,296

xaval

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Quote:
The only real reason to get an after market cable is aesthetics and durability. Money is better spent on an amp, source, or..... music! Which many seem to place second to their gear. I have owned two after market cables and the "improvements" were always very minor if any. I hear larger impacts with tube rolling than with cables.


This.
 
On phones, cables have a minimum impact on SQ unless what you have for startrs is of extreme low quality. Senn cables are more than decent hence the low gain out of cabling. If you search carefully on this boards you'll find that most of the expensive cables "sold" here have nothing special or exotic to justify their cost since you can buy the OEM base in bulk and DIY the whole business. Cables are like tuning controls at best.
 
And yes, tube rolling is more impactful than cable rolling - there you have it for perspective. It's also a much enjoyful affair with the easy switching. Unfortunetly, it usually can get much more expensive also as you just "need" to try that other tube set :)
 
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 8:53 AM Post #261 of 22,296

pp312

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Quote:
 
And yes, tube rolling is more impactful than cable rolling

 
Not if you're using an SS amp.
tongue_smile.gif

 
I beg to differ on the cable front. I bought a Headphile Blacksilver cable for my 650 and have several times tried to go back to the stock cable as it's longer and more convenient, but each time I change back hoping to hear no difference I do hear a difference and immediately switch back to the Headphile. If it's imagination, it's very persistent and goes against my wishes.
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 10:51 AM Post #263 of 22,296

Shahrose

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IME (over 5 years), and unfortunately, most of the anti-cable Head-Fi members I’ve encountered have been part of one of these groups:
 
1)      Are Inexperienced and/or parroting other posts they’ve read (look at their join date) – these people have very limited to no experience with cables
2)      Have diminished hearing (age, physical well-being, weight, exposure to noise etc.)
3)      Don’t have the requisite equipment to differentiate among cables…you can’t be testing them with low-end gear/signal and expecting to hear an improvement
4)      Have tried cables and have placebo working against them (ie. Believing there’s no difference when there is)…not realizing that placebo can work both ways
 
Ever wonder why *most* cable advocates are ones who are experienced and have relatively high-end equipment? Go check the LCD-2, HD800, T1 forums etc. Very rarely do you find someone who *doesn’t* find improvements with aftermarket cables.
 
In the end, I just encourage people to try/listen for themselves rather than spend too much time reading in the science forum, where aside from a few good contributors, most are citing high school physics to explain complex phenomena.
 
/end rant...back to the HD600.
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 10:57 AM Post #264 of 22,296

BlackbeardBen

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Quote:
IME (over 5 years), and unfortunately, most of the anti-cable Head-Fi members I’ve encountered have been part of one of these groups:
 
1)      Are Inexperienced and/or parroting other posts they’ve read (look at their join date) – these people have very limited to no experience with cables
2)      Have diminished hearing (age, physical well-being, weight, exposure to noise etc.)
3)      Don’t have the requisite equipment to differentiate among cables…you can’t be testing them with low-end gear/signal and expecting to hear an improvement
4)      Have tried cables and have placebo working against them (ie. Believing there’s no difference when there is)…but not realizing that placebo can work both ways
 
Ever wonder why *most* cable advocates are ones who are experienced and have relatively high-end equipment? Go check the LCD-2, HD800, T1 forums etc. Very rarely do you find someone who *doesn’t* find improvements with aftermarket cables.
 
In the end, I just encourage people to try/listen for themselves rather than spend too much time reading in the science forum, where aside from a few good contributors, most are citing high school physics to explain complex phenomena.
 
/end rant...back to the HD600.


And, just as well, unfortunately no one - no one ever - has ever been able to tell the difference aurally between competent cables (i.e. those measuring sufficient and similar in RLC parameters) in a scientifically valid test.
 
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 11:25 AM Post #265 of 22,296

Shahrose

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Quote:
And, just as well, unfortunately no one - no one ever - has ever been able to tell the difference aurally between competent cables (i.e. those measuring sufficient and similar in RLC parameters) in a scientifically valid test.
 

 
Then the study is flawed...too many potential sources of error to list here. I won't be talking about it any further in this thread. Cable differences are so clear over long-term listening impressions (not so clear always in short A/B tests...which are problematic for many reasons) that it's not even worth arguing about (for me).
 
 
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 2:28 PM Post #266 of 22,296

BlackbeardBen

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Quote:
 
Then the study is flawed...too many potential sources of error to list here. I won't be talking about it any further in this thread. Cable differences are so clear over long-term listening impressions (not so clear always in short A/B tests...which are problematic for many reasons) that it's not even worth arguing about (for me).
 


Alright then, whatever you'd like to believe...
 
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 3:52 PM Post #267 of 22,296

sampson_smith

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Subscribed! All hail the fair and balanced ways of the legendary HD600. Any thoughts on how the Stefan Audioart E-Series (Equinox) cables fare when paired with this reputable can? I recently thought the best of the aftermarket cables was the Cardas grey/blue, but have heard a few good things about the SAE cable.
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 8:51 PM Post #268 of 22,296

svfoo123

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The equinox helps open up the highs which with the stock cable are withheld. It has a smoothness about it but still retains punch in bass. I have never heard the cardas but would recommend the equinox.
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 8:57 PM Post #269 of 22,296

ProtegeManiac

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Quote:
IME (over 5 years), and unfortunately, most of the anti-cable Head-Fi members I’ve encountered have been part of one of these groups:
 
1)      Are Inexperienced and/or parroting other posts they’ve read (look at their join date) – these people have very limited to no experience with cables



Join date isn't even that relevant. You can have someone new on Head-Fi but, with their age, have been into audio loooooong before there were even Audio Forums, and possibly won't even be drawn into these if these weren't a good place to trade equipment given many at their age grew up without computers. It's like saying Patrick Demarchelier is a newbie because you haven't heard from him as much as you have from Ken Rockwell.
 
Even I'm a bit like that. By the time I joined Head-Fi, and Headphiles.org, I've had a few years in car audio and home audio, so I've worked DSPs more complex than anything you can find in a Cowon and treated both rooms and cars...and to be really honest I moved to headphones out of frustration with my house. I realized that to get the staging and imaging right I needed a new room, but the house as built would require a major renovation (it's made of concrete) which meant what I needed was a new house altogether. Solution: put the drivers on my head, and save space everywhere else, until I build a new one from the ground up with the audio room in mind from the start.
 
Although I do agree with you cablesmake a difference...if anything, I just wouldn't spend over $100 on them, given that good quality quad-core or separate silver or copper conductors at varying thickness are relatively easy to source where I am.  Plus it's faster to just DIY here than to wait for the Sennheiser distributor to get a the replacement detachable cable out from the warehouse and pay around $70, assuming someone in the local forum still has a few spare headphone-end connectors.
 
Apr 12, 2011 at 9:16 PM Post #270 of 22,296

sampson_smith

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Thanks, svfoo123. I should likely do some research and see how the Equinox, Cardas and perhaps Blue/Silver Dragon cables fare. I am sure there has to be a comparative study, somewhere here.
 
Quote:
The equinox helps open up the highs which with the stock cable are withheld. It has a smoothness about it but still retains punch in bass. I have never heard the cardas but would recommend the equinox.



 
 

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