Sennheiser Credibility
Apr 24, 2014 at 2:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

riverlethe

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When did Sennheiser start making $2000 headphone amps and $400 cables?  Shouldn't this pretty much destroy their credibility in the eyes of any knowledgeable audio professional?  Also, I noticed that the FR graph of the $1000 HD700 is almost identical to the HD650:
 
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3801&graphID%5B1%5D=853&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=25&graphType=-2&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:09 PM Post #3 of 20

cjl

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Frequency response doesn't tell everything - two somewhat similar FR graphs (and honestly, those two don't look that similar to me) don't mean that the two headphones will sound alike. Take a look at this graph for example. The HD650 if anything looks closer in FR to a D5000 to me than it does to an HD700, yet you probably won't hear too many people say those two headphones sound exactly alike (I know they don't to me, and I've spent a while listening to both): http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID[0]=3801&graphID[1]=853&graphID[2]=2891&graphID[3]=&scale=25&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:16 PM Post #4 of 20

cjl

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I think I found the amp you're talking about (the HDVD 800) - it's hard to say whether its overpriced or not. It certainly isn't necessary, but there are cases when you can pay $2000+ for a DAC/amp combo that has the best specs achievable with current technology (the Benchmark DACs are a good example of this). It also has a very nice case, which isn't cheap. Would I ever buy one? Probably not. Can you hear a difference between it and an O2/ODAC combo (just to pick an example of a technically excellent but much cheaper amp/dac)? Almost definitely not. At the same time, as long as it isn't audibly coloring or distorting the sound, and can't damage the headphones, I don't see anything wrong with them offering it for sale for people who want to spend that kind of money on a DAC and headphone amp.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:18 PM Post #5 of 20

riverlethe

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  1. What $2000 headphone are you talking about?
2. Sennheiser is a company that needs to make money. That's why they sell expensive stuff. You don't have to buy it.
2. The graphs don't look identical. Maybe the HD650 and HD700 share the same driver.

 
1. I said "headphone amps."  I'm referring to the HDVD 800. 
 
2. No, I don't.  I will buy from a competitor with less dishonest business practices.
 
3. They look pretty similar, except the HD700 has the treble spike an octave higher than the HD650.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:22 PM Post #6 of 20

riverlethe

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  I think I found the amp you're talking about (the HDVD 800) - it's hard to say whether its overpriced or not. It certainly isn't necessary, but there are cases when you can pay $2000+ for a DAC/amp combo that has the best specs achievable with current technology (the Benchmark DACs are a good example of this). It also has a very nice case, which isn't cheap. Would I ever buy one? Probably not. Can you hear a difference between it and an O2/ODAC combo (just to pick an example of a technically excellent but much cheaper amp/dac)? Almost definitely not. At the same time, as long as it isn't audibly coloring or distorting the sound, and can't damage the headphones, I don't see anything wrong with them offering it for sale for people who want to spend that kind of money on a DAC and headphone amp.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dsB42pXdoQ
 
This guy says, "I know all headphone amplifiers sound different." It's a bald-faced lie.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:27 PM Post #7 of 20

riverlethe

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  Frequency response doesn't tell everything - two somewhat similar FR graphs (and honestly, those two don't look that similar to me) don't mean that the two headphones will sound alike. Take a look at this graph for example. The HD650 if anything looks closer in FR to a D5000 to me than it does to an HD700, yet you probably won't hear too many people say those two headphones sound exactly alike (I know they don't to me, and I've spent a while listening to both): http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID[0]=3801&graphID[1]=853&graphID[2]=2891&graphID[3]=&scale=25&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

 
Huh?  The D5000 has noticeably more sub-bass and treble than either Sennheiser model.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:34 PM Post #8 of 20

bufferoverflow

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1 (Amp)  : About the same time Grado found out you could sell a Cmoy in a mahogany-plank for 4.495,00 DKK incl 25% VAT (830 USD !!) ?
2 (Wires) : When 'placebo', 'DBT' and 'science' became banned words on this site .
3 (destroyed credibility) : Absolutely . Everybody knows that at least 4 Swarovski Crystals are REQUIRED to achieve transparent sound .
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:38 PM Post #9 of 20

cjl

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Huh?  The D5000 has noticeably more sub-bass and treble than either Sennheiser model.

Sure, but the HD700 has a ~5dB dip around 2-3kHz relative to both the Denon and the other Sennheiser, and your ear is much more sensitive there than it is to either 8-9kHz or 20-50Hz.
 
(Honestly, I wouldn't expect any of the three to sound identical though - they all have significant differences relative to each other)
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 4:59 PM Post #10 of 20

riverlethe

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  Sure, but the HD700 has a ~5dB dip around 2-3kHz relative to both the Denon and the other Sennheiser, and your ear is much more sensitive there than it is to either 8-9kHz or 20-50Hz.
 
(Honestly, I wouldn't expect any of the three to sound identical though - they all have significant differences relative to each other)

 
So, should we expect the HD650 to sound BETTER than the HD700?  Where is this 2x price increase coming from?
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 5:07 PM Post #11 of 20

bigshot

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there's always sucker bait out there. just shop smart.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 5:16 PM Post #12 of 20

cjl

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So, should we expect the HD650 to sound BETTER than the HD700?  Where is this 2x price increase coming from?

You can't really say just based on that graph alone. It's possible that the HD700 has less distortion than the HD650, and the dip around 2kHz can be EQd out. Alternatively, it's possible that the HD650 does sound better than the HD700. I honestly wouldn't know - I've heard the 650 (which is quite good in my opinion, though not my absolute favorite set of headphones), but I haven't ever had a chance to hear the 700. 
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 5:46 PM Post #14 of 20

cjl

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  If you watched the video link you would know about asymmetrical sources and symmetricizing.  Balanced and unbalanced to us Americans I guess.

Sure, they made a big deal out of it in the video, but that doesn't mean it actually does anything in reality. The video is full of a lot of marketing and audiophile-grade nonsense.
 
Apr 24, 2014 at 5:59 PM Post #15 of 20

jcx

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Orpheus HE90/HEV 90 already forgotten? - many think statement products enhance credibility
 

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