[Monsterzero]

well, I’m partly to blame for this because I went into it not knowing exactly what I was looking for. While I have done some research on headphones, I don’t have a lot of experience with the rest. Come to find out, that, “the rest” is equally as important. Currently, I don’t own much of anything. An Oppo HA-2 just a small portable amp/dac and listening with my AKG K7XX. I’m ready to move into the next level of sound quality. So yes, as you probably already know, I have never listened to the HD-800 S. I bought them based on many reviews and what I believe I will like. Doesn’t hurt to have free returns also although I doubt I will need to use that. Wasn’t sure if I needed a separate amp and DAC but Yesterday I purchased (pre-purchased rather) the Burson 3X due out in December. I haven’t set a hard budget. The cans are about $1700 and the Burson is $1600 or so. I just prepared to purchase what I need for great sound. If I need anything else, I would probably like to keep it under 2-3k. Oh, source music will probably be Tidal. I also have an extensive Beatles DVD collection and another 30 or DVDs but honestly, I don’t see the purpose in ripping them if Tidal (or maybe Spotify) provides something close. I don’t know that my ear would even know the difference. Right now I can’t even tell the difference between a standard MP3 and Spotify‘s HQ tracks.

not sure if you need any other information but feel free to ask. Thank you for the interest.

Im not much on streaming,in fact I never do it. All my music is locally stored,so I cant really advise on that front.

As far as the amp and DAC go,personally I'd go for a tube amp to give the 800s some warmth. DACs: I'd opt for something good and well known,perhaps a Schitt Yggy. I say well known because if for whatever reason you dont like it,it will be easy to flip. I have a killer amp/DAC for sell,but because its criminally unknown I cant sell it. I upgraded my DAC to something absurdly expensive, otherwise I'd still be using it.

Tube amps have their fans as well as their detractors. Personally I'd go with a good OTL,some nice NOS tubes and other than the streaming thing you'd be set. Just my .02

 

[Liu Junyuan]

ADI-2 DAC? They don't really need a standalone amp though. If you want better sound put the extra $2k into better headphones. The HD800S is kind of low to middle-summit-fi. You'll gain very little putting it into an amp. With the combined money, you can get a Stax system that will outperform it even if you had the best amp in the world.

I just want to point this out so others new to the hobby are not mislead.

Your assumption that the HD800S is low to middle-summit fi was phrased as if it were a fact. I completely disagree, not only with your placing of the HD800S but with your terminology used for ranking in the first place. Not everyone prefers electrostatics to dynamics, and the HD800(S) remains one of the very best dynamic headphones on the market, in my opinion. Some would argue the Verite or Utopia tops it. I own the Utopia and am very familiar with it. I think it trades blows with the HD800(S)--that is, again, within the province of dynamics. It is not invariably or unequivocally factual a superior headphone to the HD800S. This is a subjective hobby.

I think it is important to keep separate planars, dynamics, and electrostatics before grafting on all of them imaginary rankings. Each technology has inherent strengths and weaknesses and highly depends on what music people primarily listen to in addition to the eventual chain. People who listen to EDM as their primary genre are likely not going to prefer Stax to planars, or even some dynamics. The inverse may be true for classical, etc. And the same holds true for open vs closed, although recent strides (Verite Closed and Aeon 2 Closed) are increasingly blurring the distinction.

 

[PointyFox]

I'm speaking from experience. You may really like the HD800S, but I've heard and owned better (I've owned the HD800S too). It's not just sound signature. There is an obvious difference in transparency.

 

[johnstac]

I just want to point this out so others new to the hobby are not mislead.

Your assumption that the HD800S is low to middle-summit fi was phrased as if it were a fact. I completely disagree, not only with your placing of the HD800S but with your terminology used for ranking in the first place. Not everyone prefers electrostatics to dynamics, and the HD800(S) remains one of the very best dynamic headphones on the market, in my opinion. Some would argue the Verite or Utopia tops it. I own the Utopia and am very familiar with it. I think it trades blows with the HD800(S)--that is, again, within the province of dynamics. It is not invariably or unequivocally factual a superior headphone to the HD800S. This is a subjective hobby.

I think it is important to keep separate planars, dynamics, and electrostatics before grafting on all of them imaginary rankings. Each technology has inherent strengths and weaknesses and highly depends on what music people primarily listen to in addition to the eventual chain. People who listen to EDM as their primary genre are likely not going to prefer Stax to planars, or even some dynamics. The inverse may be true for classical, etc. And the same holds true for open vs closed, although recent strides (Verite Closed and Aeon 2 Closed) are increasingly blurring the distinction.

I’m very glad you pointed this out. I began to feel foolish when I was getting slammed on the HD-800 S. I think of all the purchase I am going to make here, the Sennheisers will likely be the best of them.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I decided on the HD-800S with a Burson Conductor 3X. Today is the last day for pre-orders at $1649 before it goes up to $2299. I admit, I’m kind of winging it here. I took the advice of @ProtegeManiac on the Burson. Now that I have these two, what is left? Some kind of balanced cable?

As best I can tell the Conductor 3 only runs single-ended. The literature doesn't seem to say anything about a 2xTRS balanced drive mode.

Also, embarrassing as this sounds, how do I connect my source music to the Burson? I was thinking about using Tidal. What is the best method?

What device exactly are you running Tidal on?

It has a USB input so if you're using a computer you just need a cable that has the correct plug at both ends (and hopefully your computer is compatible with the USB input on it, at worst needing a driver installation).

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I'm speaking from experience. You may really like the HD800S, but I've heard and owned better (I've owned the HD800S too). It's not just sound signature. There is an obvious difference in transparency.

I am enjoying this civil dialogue.

I understand you are speaking from experience. But this experience does not solidify the factual superiority of estats in the face of those who experience estats differently. Empiricism works both ways. I really couldn't count the amount of people I know who have owned high-end Stax setups who sold them off for dynamic/planar setups. These people have called estats' timbre as plasticky, artificial, and limp in the bass. Not very ideal for EDM. On the other hand, I could very much understand the appeal of estats for people as well. It is just not the case that objectively the HD800S occupies a low to middle status in the totem pole of headphones because you prefer estats based on your experience.

 

[PointyFox]

I am enjoying this civil dialogue.

I understand you are speaking from experience. But this experience does not solidify the factual superiority of estats in the face of those who experience estats differently. Empiricism works both ways. I really couldn't count the amount of people I know who have owned high-end Stax setups who sold them off for dynamic/planar setups. These people have called estats' timbre as plasticky, artificial, and limp in the bass. Not very ideal for EDM. On the other hand, I could very much understand the appeal of estats for people as well. It is just not the case that objectively the HD800S occupies a low to middle status in the totem pole of headphones because you prefer estats based on your experience.

Some have great bass like the port modded SR007A, VOCE, and Shangri-la. I didn't say it occupies low-mid status in general. I said of "summit-fi". There are only a handful of headphones better IMO.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I’m very glad you pointed this out. I began to feel foolish when I was getting slammed on the HD-800 S. I think of all the purchase I am going to make here, the Sennheisers will likely be the best of them.

HD800S are really nice headphones. I think the original HD800 are more awe-inspiring, having a greater WOW factor, but are concomitantly more finicky with sources/amps. They need mods and EQ. The lack of fatigue of the HD800S surprised me and continues to surprise me. The HD800 fatigued me within 30 minutes.

I would agree with @PointyFox that HD800S are not definitively the last statement in headphones. Ideally, you would have started in the less than $1K range to figure out your preferences. It may very well be the case you end up with a high-end stats setup, planar setup, or dynamic setup. I would advise you at some point to educate yourself on the sonic differences between these technologies. But for now, enjoy yourself.

At the same time, there is no need to be anxious about not having chosen a great headphone. Sennheiser HD800S are legit.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Some have great bass like the port modded SR007A, VOCE, and Shangri-la. I didn't say it occupies low-mid status in general. I said of "summit-fi". There are only a handful of headphones better IMO.

The point of the thread wasn't to answer the question about what the best headphones in the world he should buy. I mean, we could also recommend him the Abyss Phi TC, ZMF Verite, Focal Utopia, LCD-4, Empyrean, Susvara, Orpheus. Or even go to Dave/Mscaler, Dcs Bartok, T2 stat amp, Uber Krell Rig for HE-6, and ad-infinitum.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I think he needs to figure out his preferences and then work from there. Synergy is everything in this hobby. The headphone cannot be separated from the rig that drives it, particularly at the high end.

 

[PaganDL]

You have no idea how much I appreciate the detailed response. It doesn’t sound like I’m going to need any other equipment. I have a few clarifying questions.

No problem, @johnstac

Happy to help, that's what some of us are actually here for, to learn & help each other.

1. First, when all of this is connected to the MacBook, is there an EQ built into the software? While I do have a Spotify subscription, I will likely also get Tidal. I think I remember Spotify having an EQ. Does Tidal as well? Do they even make hardware EQs anymore? I guess if the software can do it, then there would be no need right?

Tidal has no EQ settings you can play with.
Question for you, why do you need EQ?
Sonically, EQ will only go so far to altering (it's original use) rather fixing an audio signal which is what a lot of people seem to use it for, often for no reason.

Countless computer programs &/or plugins, especially for sound creation software, otherwise known as DAW Digital Analogue Workstation, eg Audacity, Pro Tools, Reaper, etc exist & are still being made & updated.
Hardware EQs &/or Compressors are still very much alive & kicking, still being developed, updated, etc, especially in Pro Audio & alot of it bleeds into the consumer space.
Honestly, if you wanted to mess around with EQ, using hardware is the better way to go though this is subjective & personal but also can be fun.
Just for general reference, some notable EQ &/or Compressors brands are as follows :
Whatever the BBC uses, from the 60's onwards
Empirical Labs
Rupert Neve
Heritage Audio
Pultec
Chandler

There are even more compact versions of EQs &/or Compressor vaugely resembling circut boards or PC expanison cards which have the number 500 or some variation, eg 545, etc after or before the model name which fit into racks (basically stackable boxes with power supply)
(Some images may be attached or not to this post but if they aren't feel free to look up Rupert Neve R6 & 545 Sound Enhancer)

2. In the instructions you provided to run fully balanced, letter B you mentioned a 6.3 mm end. Where did that come from. Previously, you were talking about 4.4 but then it went to 6.3. Lmk. I understand that the Senn HD-800 S comes with a 4.4 balanced Pentacon cable. I think you said I will need to buy an adapter to get the female 4.4 to a male 4-pin XLR. Good there.

As stated, your 800 S also comes with standard 6.35 terminated plug so if in case you also wanted to use this connector into the 3X XLR socket, an adapter is still required which is why I mentioned it otherwise as you noted yourself, 4.4 to XLR adapter is required.

3. Lastly, when I do occasionally use this system with a PC, are you saying that all I need is a USB cable? Does Windows 10 detect software like the Burson or should I look for a driver first?

Unless otherwise stated by Microsoft or Win10, as far as I am aware, Win10 still requires drivers unlike Macs which do not.

I saw on the back of the SoundBlaster X7, there is an Optical in/out. Can you speak to whether that would be an option or should I just go USB straight to PC and bypass the X7 completely?


Why is the X7 even involved if your primary use is from your Mac?
Honestly, personally & subjectively, I don't put much stock in Creative products for various reasons, even with a Coax connection, in this situation, USB will likely still be better but you will have to judge yourself or your ears at any rate.
Perhaps @ProtegeManiac can weigh in on Coax Vs USB but I figure USB will still win out...so to speak.
Thoughts, @ProtegeManiac?

Hey, thank you again @PaganDL for your patience and help.

As said, happy to help, feel free to ask more when you need.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Christoph]

3. Lastly, when I do occasionally use this system with a PC, are you saying that all I need is a USB cable? Does Windows 10 detect software like the Burson or should I look for a driver first?

Unless otherwise stated by Microsoft or Win10, as far as I am aware, Win10 still requires drivers unlike Macs which do not.

@johnstac
@PaganDL
Thats in general not true that Win10 always requires extra drivers, it depends on the DAC.
Therefore you have to check the manual of the DAC and the manufacurers webside (usually under 'Support'), not ask Microsoft.

The DAC i use doesn't require an extra driver, however the Buson Conductor does according to the manual available online.

 

[PaganDL]

@johnstac
@PaganDL
Thats in general not true that Win10 always requires extra drivers, it depends on the DAC.
Therefore you have to check the manual of the DAC and the manufacurers webside (usually under 'Support'), not ask Microsoft.

The DAC i use doesn't require an extra driver, however the Buson Conductor does according to the manual available online.

@Christoph,

That why I said, Depends or as otherwise stated, eg manual, DAC will indeed determine whether it requires drivers or not though from my limited experience with Burson DACs in general, most do so @johnstac will have to see for himself.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Christoph]

Even when the decision is already made, some more stuff to read, maybe for others who are researching the same question :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-amp-dac-for-hd800-s.819287/

 

[johnstac]

Even when the decision is already made, some more stuff to read, maybe for others who are researching the same question :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-amp-dac-for-hd800-s.819287/

Thank you for the information. It provided a lot of narrative supporting the various amps suggested. I canceled the preorder of the Burson CX3 partially because I need an amp right now and don’t want to wait for a preorder but in large part it’s because I couldn’t find any mention of the Burson in conjunction with the HD-800 S. What I did see was many suggesting some of the same amps over and over and I would assume it’s because they work well with the HD-800 S. I’m seriously considering the Senn HDV-820 instead. It appears I’m no closer to finding a DAC yet except for my MacBook Pro. Still a lot of reading to do in those threads and I’m hoping to find something that the vast majority believe will work well with the aforementioned Senn gear. Thanks again.