[Teeter]

OK, it was rookie mistake! I posted the other day that, while I was enjoying the overall SQ of my new SE530's, I was disappointed (and puzzled

) by the lack of low end. Well, something extraordinary happened as I methodically tried different tips.

The medium olives I was using initially provided a decent seal but, as I finally discovered, were just not inserting far enough into my ear canal. When I experimented with the small olives I almost accidentally crammed them in seemingly "too far". OMG! The bass came to life, the entire sound fattened up, and I felt foolish (but happy!)

It's interesting how incredibly much difference the insertion depth made. I knew I had relatively narrow ear canals, but did not realize I just wasn't getting the tips in far enough. DOH!!! As much time as I've spent on this site the last couple of months you'd think I'd know better by now. Oh well, live and learn.

So overall, I'm VERY pleased with the SE530's. Even with the deeper insertion, the bass isn't gut thumping - but it's very solid, tight, punchy mid and upper bass creating a very robust sound signature. Perhaps not perfect, but suits me tastes beautifully. There may be better, but these are exceptional IEMs! Yay!

 

[lucozade]

glad to hear you found some bass in your se530s teeter, INJOY ! !!

 

[Kunlun]

It's very interesting how you can listen to an iem and the mids and highs can be there, but when you get a good seal all of a sudden the lows seem to magically appear.

 

[shinobi00]

Instead of making a new thread, how about posting in the same one. forum etiquette 101.

 

[Young Spade]

Nice... and yea man it's all about the seal with IEMs. I'm glad you got the increase in sound.

 

[HONEYBOY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinobi00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Instead of making a new thread, how about posting in the same one. forum etiquette 101.

Hi Teeter, Welcome to head fi and glad to see things worked out eventually with the SE530. It would be a good idea to post in the thread you started and indicate that the particular shortcomings of the phones you aforementioned has been rectified somewhat. This may in fact prove to be of help to someone in the future who may have the initial experience you've had.

 

[Teeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HONEYBOY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Teeter, Welcome to head fi and glad to see things worked out eventually with the SE530. It would be a good idea to post in the thread you started and indicate that the particular shortcomings of the phones you aforementioned has been rectified somewhat. This may in fact prove to be of help to someone in the future who may have the initial experience you've had.

Yep, good point.

 

[mvw2]

Insertion can be a sizable deal. For example, the SA6 is designed to be inserted relatively deeply and sounds good this way, strong bass, smooth response, warm. Switching to different tips like Shure Olives which place the earphone out farther, the bass lightens up the tone brightens. It can vary a bit. Earphones like the SE530 do have trouble with insertion depth by design though as it is made to sit in the large space in your ear and will simply sit against your ear before readily going deep.

I will state that relative to other earphones like the TF10, IE8, W3, the low frequency bass amount is still less. As well, it can not produce a coherent 30Hz done regardless of EQing. It simply doesn't seem capable. Things like the Westone or Sennheiser are simply a completely other level when it comes to low frequency extension and capability to produce audible, coherent low frequency information. While you can say the bass is found, and I'm sure there is more there for you now, from my testing, the raw capability isn't there. EQing can boost and extend as needed down to a certain point, but things like the IE8 or WE/UM3X will go lower, easier, and more coherently. Even the TF10 is a little more capable on the bottom end. When I do say low frequencies and bottom end, I'm talking mainly about 30Hz to 60Hz range, very low frequencies, frequencies are not common in a lot of music.

 

[Teeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will state that relative to other earphones like the TF10, IE8, W3, the low frequency bass amount is still less. As well, it can not produce a coherent 30Hz done regardless of EQing. It simply doesn't seem capable. Things like the Westone or Sennheiser are simply a completely other level when it comes to low frequency extension and capability to produce audible, coherent low frequency information. While you can say the bass is found, and I'm sure there is more there for you now, from my testing, the raw capability isn't there. EQing can boost and extend as needed down to a certain point, but things like the IE8 or WE/UM3X will go lower, easier, and more coherently. Even the TF10 is a little more capable on the bottom end. When I do say low frequencies and bottom end, I'm talking mainly about 30Hz to 60Hz range, very low frequencies, frequencies are not common in a lot of music.

Great points. But the challenge for me is that SOOOOOO much of the music happens in the mids. There's no melody in low bass region nor in the upper trebles. So just because an IEM can get there, if it does so at the expense strong mids, then I probably won't like it. Definitely a personal preference thing.

That said, I am interested in trying the IE8's and/or W3's at some point to satisfy my curiosity. (Damn this site!)

 

[rawrster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunlun /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's very interesting how you can listen to an iem and the mids and highs can be there, but when you get a good seal all of a sudden the lows seem to magically appear.

i find that for most phones ive had bass is affected the most by a bad seal

 

[mvw2]

Agreed. Human hearing perception centers around the midrange and vocals. This is simply biological as a species. We are less sensitive to the quality of highs and largely insensitive to low frequency information quality.

A lot of music doesn't make much use of low frequencies. It's simply a limit of human vocals and instruments used. Sometimes instruments will be used that make use of low frequencies or synthesized music that incorporates low frequency test tones. I can agree that a midrange focus is a good starting point. However, I would always hope the end goal is total coverage and balanced coverage. I personally consider the SE530 have poor (low sensitivity) coverage below 100Hz, at least without EQing. It's simply that a lot of strings, drums, brass, etc. do play down to around 60Hz, and to get the full presentation of these instruments, you do need the sensitivity and coherence to create those sounds along with the rest of the frequency range. You may not necessarily miss not having some of the information, but it is still lacking. EQing can help a lot. As long as the earphone can produce the note with minimal distortion, EQing can get you what you're missing. Sometimes, some earphones simply are incapable. Many budget earphones lack low end or top end or both and are incapable of producing anything musical even if you EQ and raise the sensitivity. I didn't particularly play with the SE530 with EQing to get a good feel for it's low frequency capability in a musical sense. I ran test tones and EQed it flat to give me a representation of its natural response (skewed relative to my ears), but I didn't really play much music with them EQed. Just recall them requiring huge sensitivity gains to barely produce a 40Hz tone at an equivalent volume to the higher frequencies, and I couldn't get a perceivable 30Hz tone from them. At 50Hz, the SE530 was already down -12dB compared to its output at 1kHz. To compare relative bass output, something like the UM3X was down -1dB at 50Hz and the IE8 +2dB at 50Hz relative to their outputs at 1kHz. The IE8 can realistically produce a 20Hz tone at the same loudness as it produces a 1kHz tone with zero EQing. The UM3X would be down -2dB only. The SE530 would be in the -20dBs to -30dBs at least by 20Hz. Interestingly, the drivers seem relatively capable. I really perceived no real output limitation with the SE530. It's simply that the sensitivity wasn't there, and I don't realistically think people would want to run a -20dB boost at 20Hz to create a flat bottom end response out of te SE530.

You really should give the IE8 a try. It is a neat earphone. It is a little midbass heavy, but few dB cut at 100Hz will knock that right out, and it is largely balanced otherwise and extended on both ends of the spectrum. It's an excellent representation of what you can get when you have an extended bass response. The big sound stage is fun to listen to as well, quite a bit different from the SE530 in presentation, more spacious, softer and thicker in note, good speed, and a natural sound. The W3 might not be your cup of tea if you want mids. I have not personally listened to a pair, but from what people say, it's a little V shaped in response. The UM3X is flatter yet very similar in sound from how the W3 have been described. I've only used the UM3X. Despite how delicately detailed the SE530, the UM3X will show you details in music the SE530 will never show you. It is also unmatched in terms of dynamic range and energy of note. Stage presence is pretty much you up on stage, very close, but it offers an excellent sense of space with exact location, distancing, and layering that the SE530, IE8, or TF10 can't match. The UM3X is one of my favorite IEMs, although it sounds a bit unrefined and lacks realism.

Yes, head-fi has a way of draining your wallet. I've gone through a lot of earphones over the last couple years, and I just purchased two more over the last couple days, Klipsch's Custom 3 and Audio Technica's CK10. The CK10 has been one I always wanted to try out. The Custom 3 I sort of never looked at despite some rave reviews. I have mixed impressions on Klipsch's sound, so I've largely ignored their earphones. Frankly there's tons of options out there. The approach I've taken has largely been a matter of trial and error. Buy some, test them for a while, keep what best matches my preferences and goals. Repeat. So far I've largely stuck with my Yuin OK1 buds over everything I've tried, most realistic, life-like earphones I've used, not an IEM of course.