[Ableza]

Hi guys!

I've been using the Yggy A2 for a while now and I really like it. However I have a slight problem - the output of the Yggy is too loud.

You need a preamp (or use an integrated amp with preamp functions built-in.)

 

[earnmyturns]

I have switched both the external and the internal pre-gain settings of the amp to -18db and still normal listening level is when the volume knob of the amp is at about 9 o'clock. When feeding the Yggy with the optical output of a PlayStation 4 the sound is significantly quieter and is at normal listening levels when the knob is at 12 - 13 o'clock. It's very strange to me that the digital input signal to the Yggy impacts it's output in such a way.

I don't know what the PlayStation 4 does, but my guess is that it is doing some digital volume control. I've used my Y A2 with USB, S/PDIF coax, and AES with fixed volume digital sources without digital attenuation and the analog output was always the same volume, although sounding slightly different between sources.

 

[SilverEars]

Hi guys!

I've been using the Yggy A2 for a while now and I really like it. However I have a slight problem - the output of the Yggy is too loud. Now that I have a new transport (the Pi2Design PI2AES) it outputs even louder signal to my amp. The chain is as follows:
PI2AES Volumi => Grimm TPR XLR AES/EBU => Yggdrasil A2 => 2 x Grimm TPR XLR => Violectric V281 => XLR => HD800S

I have switched both the external and the internal pre-gain settings of the amp to -18db and still normal listening level is when the volume knob of the amp is at about 9 o'clock. When feeding the Yggy with the optical output of a PlayStation 4 the sound is significantly quieter and is at normal listening levels when the knob is at 12 - 13 o'clock. It's very strange to me that the digital input signal to the Yggy impacts it's output in such a way.

Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to make the signal from the Yggy quieter? I have tried very cheap RCA interconnects and it helps with signal loudness, but the sound quality also suffers.

EDIT: The Yggy's manual says:
Output: One pair XLR balanced and two pairs RCA single-ended
Output Impedance: 75 ohms
Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS (balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)

My interconnect XLR cables are 110 ohms, does this matter?


EDIT2: I found that there are devices called XLR attenuators. Do you have experience with them? It seems they can solve the issue. So I guess now the main question is if the chain will sound better with the v281's volume pot at at least 12 o'clock and will the XLR attenuators degrade sound quality.

Example of such devices are:
JTS MA-123
Shure A15AS
Audio-Technica AT8202

That is an odd situation indeed. Only thing I can think of is the outputs from the tow different interface circuits. AES/EBU interface circuit putting out louder output level than optical. 9-12 O'clock difference is quite significant though.

Can anybody that is able to compare both AES/EBU and optical confirm this? If it's true the AES/EBU is louder, trying to AB would give 'not volume matched' outputs, and perception of AES/EBU sounding better or more detailed due to being louder.

Also, 110 ohm or 75 ohm XLR shouldn't make a difference since amp's input impedance is much greater for the amp to get maximum signal from the DAC. I believe AES/EBU xlr are 110 ohms, and normal microphone cable XLR are 75 ohms.

 

[garbulky]

Hi guys!

I've been using the Yggy A2 for a while now and I really like it. However I have a slight problem - the output of the Yggy is too loud. Now that I have a new transport (the Pi2Design PI2AES) it outputs even louder signal to my amp. The chain is as follows:
PI2AES Volumi => Grimm TPR XLR AES/EBU => Yggdrasil A2 => 2 x Grimm TPR XLR => Violectric V281 => XLR => HD800S

I have switched both the external and the internal pre-gain settings of the amp to -18db and still normal listening level is when the volume knob of the amp is at about 9 o'clock. When feeding the Yggy with the optical output of a PlayStation 4 the sound is significantly quieter and is at normal listening levels when the knob is at 12 - 13 o'clock. It's very strange to me that the digital input signal to the Yggy impacts it's output in such a way.

Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to make the signal from the Yggy quieter? I have tried very cheap RCA interconnects and it helps with signal loudness, but the sound quality also suffers.

EDIT: The Yggy's manual says:
Output: One pair XLR balanced and two pairs RCA single-ended
Output Impedance: 75 ohms
Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS (balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)

My interconnect XLR cables are 110 ohms, does this matter?


EDIT2: I found that there are devices called XLR attenuators. Do you have experience with them? It seems they can solve the issue. So I guess now the main question is if the chain will sound better with the v281's volume pot at at least 12 o'clock and will the XLR attenuators degrade sound quality.

Example of such devices are:
JTS MA-123
Shure A15AS
Audio-Technica AT8202

I think the answer you are searching for lies on the back of your Violectric on the "pre-gain" settings. These allow you to have a much better range of motion with the volume knob.

Read your user manual found here on page 18. It should give you the answer you are looking for.
https://power-holdings-inc.com/Violectric-HPA-V281-Headphone-Amplifier-p136295531[/url]

 

[ahossam]

I try kimber kable base pk14 power cable with yggdrasil but it won't turned on, what do you guys recommended premium power cable to replace the stock one? is there any benefit using premium power cable?

 

[Alcophone]

I try kimber kable base pk14 power cable with yggdrasil but it won't turned on, what do you guys recommended premium power cable to replace the stock one? is there any benefit using premium power cable?

I wanted some short, shielded power cords that weren't outrageously expensive, and settled on the Wireworld Stratus 7 for everything. I don't remember the specific benefits I heard with the Yggdrasil, only have notes from when I tried a few options with the Vidar. At the very least, they don't hurt anything.

I tried to measure the effectiveness of the shielding and it fairs well there, too.

18 AWG cord: 153 V/m
14 AWG Tripp-Lite: 246 V/m
14 AWG Volex: 54 V/m
14 AWG Venom 14: 56 V/m
12 AWG Poseidon GL: 208 V/m
12 AWG Stratus 7: 70 V/m
7 AWG Pangea AC-9SE Mk 2: 63 V/m

 

[alpovs]

Why do you want to shield power cords? If you want to achieve that mysterious something don't you have to shield the wiring of the whole house and perhaps you neighbor's?

 

[G0rt]

Why do you want to shield power cords? If you want to achieve that mysterious something don't you have to shield the wiring of the whole house and perhaps you neighbor's?

Unshielded power cords can act like little antennae, picking up local RFI, say from a plasma TV, lamp dimmer, PC, etc..

That sort of noise can ride right past bulk PS filters, and disrupt, however slightly, digital circuitry, like a DAC.

Once you take care of simple line noise, say from HVAC or high current appliances (I use Furman), so that you no longer hear switching transients, if you do have significant local EMI, a shielded cord is a simple fix, and can make a real difference.

 

[Alcophone]

Why do you want to shield power cords? If you want to achieve that mysterious something don't you have to shield the wiring of the whole house and perhaps you neighbor's?

I'm using a power conditioner to "clean" the power, then shielded cords to keep it clean, and like @G0rt said, to not act like antennas affecting the signal cables or equipment. At least that's my theory, how true it is, I don't know.

The power conditioner (Audioquest Niagara 1000/1200, but not the Furman PST-8D in my case) definitely makes the bigger difference in my speaker system (not in my headphone rigs) compared to the power cords. The Volex 17604/17605 are great for the money and what I use in secondary systems.

 

[earnmyturns]

Why do you want to shield power cords? If you want to achieve that mysterious something don't you have to shield the wiring of the whole house and perhaps you neighbor's?

My answer: some of my headphone amps have unbalanced inputs. I run power cables as far as possible from signal cables, but I have verified experimentally that shielded power cables help reduce hum into the unbalanced input headphone amps. Why do I have headphone amps with unbalanced inputs? Guess what, my two best headphone amps are like that: Eddie Current Aficionado and Apex Peak. I run both from an Yggdrasil A2.

 

[johnjen]

Another perspective.
In this case we're dealing with two types of 'noise'.
One is electrostatic and the other magnetic, with 2 different methods of 'entry' into our gear.
Shielding is aimed more at the magnetic, which falls off in strength very rapidly with greater distance (to the cube root).
But it can 'induce' a current to want to 'go to ground' and sometimes that path to ground uses the audio path itself, either directly or indirectly.
This creates a variable voltage that can be modulated and in a variety of ways, we can call this 'noise'.
And of course there can be many types of different sources of modulation all at the same time, and some of them can affect other forms of modulation that are associated with them, like the 20-20K band.

IOW ground itself can get 'contaminated' with noise and as our gear becomes more and more revealing of the inner musical details, these 'unwanted guests' become more and more apparent.

Cleaning up ground is or can be a chore.
But once 'handled', having a 'clean' ground (and clean power) can strip away layers/veils from the music you didn't even know were there.

But also keep in mind that the 'biggest bang for the buck' may be the cheapest, like getting rid of the cheap plugin strips that are in turn plugged into the duplex receptacle, ya know the one that came with the house, when it was built, and is now perhaps a bit wobbly and loose…

Just some things to consider…

JJ

 

[Ableza]

Unshielded power cords can act like little antennae, picking up local RFI, say from a plasma TV, lamp dimmer, PC, etc..

That sort of noise can ride right past bulk PS filters, and disrupt, however slightly, digital circuitry, like a DAC.

Once you take care of simple line noise, say from HVAC or high current appliances (I use Furman), so that you no longer hear switching transients, if you do have significant local EMI, a shielded cord is a simple fix, and can make a real difference.

It's one of those problems that "can" happen, but for most users it is not an issue. If you have problems with RF induction, there are many ways to fix it. If you don't, and the vast majority of people won't, then there is no advantage to shielded power cable to anyone other then the vendor who charges you more for it.

 

[alpovs]

In this case we're dealing with two types of 'noise'.
One is electrostatic and the other magnetic, with 2 different methods of 'entry' into our gear.
Shielding is aimed more at the magnetic, which falls off in strength very rapidly with greater distance (to the cube root).
But it can 'induce' a current to want to 'go to ground' and sometimes that path to ground uses the audio path itself, either directly or indirectly.
This creates a variable voltage that can be modulated and in a variety of ways, we can call this 'noise'.

Have you ever thought why one type of field is called electrostatic and another is electromagnetic (and there is magnetic which is static)? When changing, a magnetic field creates an electric field, and when an electric field changes it creates a magnetic field. That's why there is an electromagnetic field where the two cannot be separated. Static electric or magnetic fields won't induce any noise. Noise implies a variable amplitude. Only electromagnetic fields can induce noise. So, there is really only one type of noise. Oh, and the electromagnetic field diminishes with a square of the distance despite having a magnetic component in it.

When Schiit announced their USB Gen 5 and Eitr they claimed electrostatic and magnetic isolation. When I pointed the above that it didn't make sense from the physics point of view my post was deleted by Jason (in his thread).

 

[alpovs]

OK. From all the responses I see that shielded power cords make sense only after power conditioners. Makes sense to me.

 

[G0rt]

It's one of those problems that "can" happen, but for most users it is not an issue. If you have problems with RF induction, there are many ways to fix it. If you don't, and the vast majority of people won't, then there is no advantage to shielded power cable to anyone other then the vendor who charges you more for it.

Probably. Maybe...

I'm a radio guy, with radio gear, so I can easily see and hear my RF-noisy environment, and in some cases identify the source(s), without necessarily being able to mitigate a noise at its source.

What I can do, and have done, is verify that a cheap shielded power cord makes an audible improvement, in my environment, when applied to my DAC.

I will note that I hear no difference when using shielded power cords with any of my head amps.