[KoshNaranek]

I thought I would share my impressions of the Saga Preamp and some of the Tube Rolling I have already done on it.
 
Firstly, I would like to say how impressed I am with the sound form the Stock Tubes. If tube rolling was not so cheap(for non RCA tubes) and fun I would not bother and just enjoy the music if tube rolling is intimidating to you.
 
 
I am just going to place the tubes in rank order with some comments
 
1. RCA Red base: Mike is correct, this tube is really a revelation. Wide and Deep soundstage. Presence is excellent and you can hear more dynamic range.
 
2. Hitachi, Hytron GT and GE GTB tubes: Noticeable improvement over stock tube. I would not cry into my drink with any of these. GE voices closest to the RCA and the Hitachi and Hytron are more mellow. All are very pleasant. I got these tubes for about $10 each and they represent the best value.
 
3. Tung-Sol GTB: Very warm. Too warm for my taste. I place it here in the list, not because I liked it, but because others might gravitate to it. This one was $20.
 
4. Sylvania GTB: slight improvement over stock: not enough to bother.
 
5. Stock tube: Very nice. Serves as the baseline.
 
6. Sylvania GTA: Midrange emphasis. Good for vocals I suppose.
 
7. JJ Electronics New Tube: Quite the disappointment given how much I like their E88CC tubes.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

It's not often I reply on tube rolling threads, because everything is so subjective. And I won't go subjective here. This is just a comment on tube construction. 
 
Specifically, construction of new-production "6SN7" type tubes. The new production tubes we've evaluated (JJ, Electro-Harmonix) don't look like typical 6SN7s. Their plates look reminiscent of something you'd see in late-production compactron tubes intended for television service. This in itself isn't a bad thing, as there are some very nice compactron tubes out there.
 
That said, the difference in plate geometry is (ahem) interesting, and may bear some discussion, if anyone here knows anything about the construction of these new-production tubes.

 

[KoshNaranek]

It's not often I reply on tube rolling threads, because everything is so subjective. And I won't go subjective here. This is just a comment on tube construction. 

Specifically, construction of new-production "6SN7" type tubes. The new production tubes we've evaluated (JJ, Electro-Harmonix) don't look like typical 6SN7s. Their plates look reminiscent of something you'd see in late-production compactron tubes intended for television service. This in itself isn't a bad thing, as there are some very nice compactron tubes out there.

That said, the difference in plate geometry is (ahem) interesting, and may bear some discussion, if anyone here knows anything about the construction of these new-production tubes.

Thank you Jason

 

[bigro]

This is a somewhat detailed History of the 6SN7. There is some details about Different Plate types used as well as variations over the years and another mention of the red base tubes.
 
http://www.fourwater.com/files/hist6sn7.txt

 

[limelake]

  I thought I would share my impressions of the Saga Preamp and some of the Tube Rolling I have already done on it.
 
Firstly, I would like to say how impressed I am with the sound form the Stock Tubes. If tube rolling was not so cheap(for non RCA tubes) and fun I would not bother and just enjoy the music if tube rolling is intimidating to you.
 
 
I am just going to place the tubes in rank order with some comments
 
1. RCA Red base: Mike is correct, this tube is really a revelation. Wide and Deep soundstage. Presence is excellent and you can hear more dynamic range.
 
2. Hitachi, Hytron GT and GE GTB tubes: Noticeable improvement over stock tube. I would not cry into my drink with any of these. GE voices closest to the RCA and the Hitachi and Hytron are more mellow. All are very pleasant. I got these tubes for about $10 each and they represent the best value.
 
3. Tung-Sol GTB: Very warm. Too warm for my taste. I place it here in the list, not because I liked it, but because others might gravitate to it. This one was $20.
 
4. Sylvania GTB: slight improvement over stock: not enough to bother.
 
5. Stock tube: Very nice. Serves as the baseline.
 
6. Sylvania GTA: Midrange emphasis. Good for vocals I suppose.
 
7. JJ Electronics New Tube: Quite the disappointment given how much I like their E88CC tubes.

Was the Tung-Sol one of the new Russian Made ? Or a NOS ?

 

[KoshNaranek]

Was the Tung-Sol one of the new Russian Made ? Or a NOS ?

Used tube. Production number 322607-3. Google says they are actually made by Sylvania but it has a side getter and sounds nothing like my Sylvania GTB (top getter)

 

[limelake]

Okay thankyou! I think I will try a GE tube to start.

 

[KoshNaranek]

Okay thankyou! I think I will try a GE tube to start.

I think I want to try a non Red base RCA. Their prices are not so dear.

 

[limelake]

I ordered a GE last night...I was eyeing up the Raytheon.....made in japan in the 70's. Then again I may try a new production JJ....ahh well, I better just try the GE first befor I buy anything else.

 

[KoshNaranek]

I ordered a GE last night...I was eyeing up the Raytheon.....made in japan in the 70's. Then again I may try a new production JJ....ahh well, I better just try the GE first befor I buy anything else.

Tried the JJ, it was really bad. Good luck with GE. I think my Hitachi is 70s also, I really like it as well. Since my wife likes it best, it probably get the most use.

 

[limelake]

Sorry I didn't mean a JJ...I meant a new production tung-sol.

 

[KoshNaranek]

New production Tung-Sol is made in Russia and rebranded by New Sensor Corporation. Jason's comments above would apply to them I think.

 

[limelake]

New production Tung-Sol is made in Russia and rebranded by New Sensor Corporation. Jason's comments above would apply to them I think.

I do believe that some of the new production tubes may be good....perhaps great ? Who knows ? Problem is, eventually NOS tubes will become scarce, very expensive, even disappear. What will the next generation of tubes be like ? Will we be wanting the current generation then ? Or will they be better ? I think new production methods don't allow toxic elements and manufacturing techniques and tubes have suffered due to such.So...........who wants to be the first to jump into and test the new production shuguangs and shuguang treasures and the jj golds and all the offerings from eh/new sensor ? Don't get me wrong, I personally love the NOS tubes i own, I do think they are better. I dumped the new production tubes (shuguang) in my amp for NOS JAN GE5670's and never looked back. But the were very, affordable. I think we should support the current manufacturers to a certain degree....But I think they are well aware of the short comings of their versions...How do we get them to build tubes that sound the same as the NOS or very close ? I don't know that they can....or can they ? I must state that i do love my new production tung-sol el84's and because of that i ordered some new production mullard el84's in my order last night. Can amps be designed to sound fantastic around the new production tubes ? Jason can you comment on this ? I know you can buy skids of awesome NOS russian military dirt cheap. I priced 6N6p's last night from the tube store and they cost more than ordering the full tube set for my Valhalla 2 from you !

 

[limelake]

Just as an added not I am not trying to make this a NOS vs New production thread......I was just thinking through my keyboard.

 

[KoshNaranek]

Just as an added not I am not trying to make this a NOS vs New production thread......I was just thinking through my keyboard.

I agree, if the new tube manufacturers make a quality product, then we should support them. I have raved about JJ E88CC on the Valhalla thread. The JJ 6sn7 are useless, and we should vote with our wallets.