[rb2013]

 
Yeah we hear things differently.  I liked my Lyr a lot.  I love my WA2.  To me more meat on the bone everywhere I looked.  Which Woo did you have Bob...I forget. 

The WA6-SE.  I spent a year rolling every driver tube I could find for it, then upgraded the caps so it would take a wider range, and rolled some more.  Then rolled a bunch of rectifier tubes in it.  I thought I had it rolled to perfection.  But it was lacking a little energy,very musical, but a bit relaxed - even boring at times.  After reading the Sarjan's (Editor 6Moons) excellent review of the Lyr - I decided to give it a try.  It had an energy I loved - a bit rough around the edges with the stock tube - but way more exciting then the Woo.  Well after rolling over 50 different tube types in the Lyr in the course of a year - and then coming on the '75 Voskhods Gray's I was sold.  And soon after so was the Woo.
 
For anybody considering a Lyr/Lyr2 -read this review! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
 
Best quote:

But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. And to jump ahead, to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5. 

And that review was with the stock Voskhod 6n1p Valhalla tubes (which Sarjan preferred to the stock Lyr tubes).  Imagine with a pair of HG's or Philips Miniwatts!
 
Here is a reviewer who has heard more HP amps then just about anyone on this forum.  Has tried all these great HPamps -with a huge collection of HP's.  With a trained and professional ear...that quote says it all...

 

[rb2013]

For anybody interested here is a link to a comparison chart of the different Woo Audio Headphone Amps.
 
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf

 

[billerb1]

 
The WA6-SE.  I spent a year rolling every driver tube I could find for it, then upgraded the caps so it would take a wider range, and rolled some more.  Then rolled a bunch of rectifier tubes in it.  I thought I had it rolled to perfection.  But it was lacking a little energy,very musical, but a bit relaxed - even boring at times.  After reading the Sarjan's (Editor 6Moons) excellent review of the Lyr - I decided to give it a try.  It had an energy I loved - a bit rough around the edges with the stock tube - but way more exciting then the Woo.  Well after rolling over 50 different tube types in the Lyr in the course of a year - and then coming on the '75 Voskhods Gray's I was sold.  And soon after so was the Woo.
 
For anybody considering a Lyr/Lyr2 -read this review! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
 
Best quote:
And that review was with the stock Voskhod 6n1p Valhalla tubes (which Sarjan preferred to the stock Lyr tubes).  Imagine with a pair of HG's or Philips Miniwatts!
 
Here is a reviewer who has heard more HP amps then just about anyone on this forum.  Has tried all these great HPamps -with a huge collection of HP's.  With a trained and professional ear...that quote says it all...

Lol,  you and Sarjan hold onto your Lyrs.  I'm sure he has one.   I'm doin' just fine with my WA2.  Like we've noted, we hear very different things.

 

[rb2013]

  Lol,  you and Sarjan hold onto your Lyrs.  I'm sure he has one.   I'm doin' just fine with my WA2.  Like we've noted, we hear very different things.

Well knowing Srajan he probably has a TTVJ Pinnacle
 
Enjoy your WA2 LOL
 
Cheers Friend!

 

[billerb1]

 
Well knowing Srajan he probably has a TTVJ Pinnacle
 
Enjoy your WA2 LOL
 
Cheers Friend!

 
Back at ya Roberto

 

[satwilson]

 
No - but calling the Russian tubes crap is offensive to many here - including me.  I have Russian tubes that blow the Philips E188CCand E88CC away - far away.
 

First off, lets level the playing field!!!!!!!!Bob, I respect your vision that your idea of "Russian Tubes" is your Holy Grail. However this idea is your "VISION". NO OTHER REPUTABLE tube seller or GURU PURPORTS THIS VISION!!!!!!. Your assertion that "you have Russian tubes that blow.............E188CC Miniwatts" Really??????????? Lets respect each others opinion. My US Amperex 7308's, D-Getters will give greater detail, AND way better accurate instrumental timbre, than any of your Russian tubes. I offered to send you these tubes for your "shootout", you declined my offer, saying your wouldn't wan't to possibly damage these "rare" tubes. Indeed they are "rare", but real NOS 7308's are robust, Military, ready for anything tubes. As regards your Russian tubes, they are Military grade, robust, but the detail and correct instrumental timbre is vague and lacking. Anyone reading? I have owned multiple sets of 75/74 Reflektors/ Rockets. Great tubes, but for my money, early 60s Miniwatt E188CC, AND the best ever "US AMPEREX, NY, D-Getters, 7308s. This discussion and tubes mentioned, are beyond the budget of most readers. The great Miniwatt E188CC, tubes $150-$300. The US Amperex, 7308, D-Getters.................. Bob's best 75/74 SWGP Reflektors, bargain priced. My personal experience, they are as good as the $300/Telefunken E88CC's, have/had a couple pairs. US/AMPEREX/7308/D-GETTER, RULES.

 

[rb2013]

   
Back at ya Roberto

LOL

 

[ThurstonX]

Bob, you may be interested in this.  I finally rolled these crazy tubes:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
 
I picked the two "best looking" that had the same internal construction.  They've been running for exactly one week as I type this.  These crazy gold-pinned "Made in Germany" "6922"s with the SWGP are seriously fine examples of the best Russian glass.  I almost forgot about them, as other acquisitions demanded my attention, but their time has come.  First and foremost, they are dead quiet.  I've been wrestling with spitty, poppy, humming tubes so much lately that I forgot about that glorious silence.  I've been listening with the HE-560s almost exclusively, and it's a fine pairing.
 
Given the recent comments regarding fakes (I don't think these fall into that category, as CEi was just a re-brander), I figured I'd mention them.  But given their very strange pedigree, I've named them Oddball in honor of Donald Sutherland's character in Kelly's Heroes 

 
Have fun with your shootout, but try not to be too biased toward your HGs 

 

 

[rb2013]

  Bob, you may be interested in this.  I finally rolled these crazy tubes:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/3435#post_10951463
 
I picked the two "best looking" that had the same internal construction.  They've been running for exactly one week as I type this.  These crazy gold-pinned "Made in Germany" "6922"s with the SWGP are seriously fine examples of the best Russian glass.  I almost forgot about them, as other acquisitions demanded my attention, but their time has come.  First and foremost, they are dead quiet.  I've been wrestling with spitty, poppy, humming tubes so much lately that I forgot about that glorious silence.  I've been listening with the HE-560s almost exclusively, and it's a fine pairing.
 
Given the recent comments regarding fakes (I don't think these fall into that category, as CEi was just a re-brander), I figured I'd mention them.  But given their very strange pedigree, I've named them Oddball in honor of Donald Sutherland's character in Kelly's Heroes 

 
Have fun with your shootout, but try not to be too biased toward your HGs 

 

I hear you about the spitty, poppy noisey tubes.  Not fun.
 
Those are cool!  I wonder what year?  They could be anywhere from 1970 to 1975 - those are the years Voskhods made 6n23p's with the SWGP and gray shields.
 
I promise to be as fair as possible regarding the HG's.  Funny Satwilson's review ranked the HG sister '74 Reflektor SWGP silvers ahead of the excellent Tele '66 E88CC - I had them a draw.  He did rank some very, very special Philips ahead of both at #1.  I wouldn't quibble with any of these awesome tubes taking #1, #2 or #3 as at this elevated level it comes down to personal preference.
 
How are those Siemens CCa's sounding you got not to long ago?  They have always been one of my favorites -especailly the early 60's gray shield version.  So ridiuculslly expensvie not $300-$400 a pair.  Where yours the very early horseshoe getter version?
 
For those new to tubes - as the Amperex Pinched Waist's
 are considered the king of Yang, the Siemens CCa Gray shield are the king of Yin
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

  First off, lets level the playing field!!!!!!!!Bob, I respect your vision that your idea of "Russian Tubes" is your Holy Grail. However this idea is your "VISION". NO OTHER REPUTABLE tube seller or GURU PURPORTS THIS VISION!!!!!!. Your assertion that "you have Russian tubes that blow.............E188CC Miniwatts" Really??????????? Lets respect each others opinion. My US Amperex 7308's, D-Getters will give greater detail, AND way better accurate instrumental timbre, than any of your Russian tubes. I offered to send you these tubes for your "shootout", you declined my offer, saying your wouldn't wan't to possibly damage these "rare" tubes. Indeed they are "rare", but real NOS 7308's are robust, Military, ready for anything tubes. As regards your Russian tubes, they are Military grade, robust, but the detail and correct instrumental timbre is vague and lacking. Anyone reading? I have owned multiple sets of 75/74 Reflektors/ Rockets. Great tubes, but for my money, early 60s Miniwatt E188CC, AND the best ever "US AMPEREX, NY, D-Getters, 7308s. This discussion and tubes mentioned, are beyond the budget of most readers. The great Miniwatt E188CC, tubes $150-$300. The US Amperex, 7308, D-Getters.................. Bob's best 75/74 SWGP Reflektors, bargain priced. My personal experience, they are as good as the $300/Telefunken E88CC's, have/had a couple pairs. US/AMPEREX/7308/D-GETTER, RULES.

Well read your own review! Then read my tube list!  No mention of the E188CC MIniwatts on it.  I have Philip Valvo E188CC's and Miniwatt SQ E88CC's.
 
So to compare very rare $300/pr tubes to $150/pr (HGs) or $130/pr ('74s) is not a fair comparison. 
 
Here is a pair I bet you or OP have never heard - and they may be the best 6922 ever made.  Better by a mile then my HG's

 Cca Philips Holland made for Valvo (ultra premium 6DJ8/6922) RARE, gold pins.MATCHED PAIR
 

New Old Stock white Box. MORE PAIRS JUST IN! Possibly the rarest type and make of tube in the entire 6DJ8/6922 family, these museum pieces are a rare collector's prize! Unlike most Cca types made in Germany, these are Holland made with characteristic warmth and musicality of the Dutch tubes. The Cca is one of the "Holy Grail" tubes in the 6922/7308 family, and probably the best audiophile 6DJ8 type ever made, at any time. They were originally made for the German Government for use in telecommunications where low noise and long life were critical. Most you will find were made in Germany, but these Amperex made tubes are a rare exception: a Dutch tube made for a German company, Valvo. The labels are good, and these are all Valvo labels, with Heerlen Holland factory marks. These are VERY scarce in the USA, unheard of in matched pairs. You can spend more than this on speaker cables or fancy interconnects, and not get the sonic improvement these tubes will provide! Very nicely matched pair, supplied with test data and our 30 day guarantee. SINGLE TUBES ARE $475.00.

$950.00 per pair

  Or how about these - you or OP ever own these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-TELEFUNKEN-E88CC-CCa-Tube-NOS-NIB-/291309809898?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d36af0ea
 Matched Pair of TELEFUNKEN E88CC CCa Tube NOS NIB US $999.00

 
My point is it's all relative!  And just one man's opinion to what he's heard.  I am entitled to my opinion - no?
 
But these are your words in your review:
 

  After a lot of rolling and critical evaluation my favorite tubes:
        Tied for number "1"
1960, 7308, USA Amperex, D-Getters. Best detail and dynamics of any tube in my collection. Overall very neutral sounding for Amperex, but still a little warmth throughout the frequency spectrum. Totally engaging. Perfect instrument timbre. Perfect bass.
1962 Dario Miniwatts, Holland, E188CC's, large "O" getters. When I want that "warm tube sound", these babies deliver!! These tubes have excellent detail and dynamics just not as much as the 7308s. Female vocals, piano, acoustic bass, alto saxes, sound so lush and lovely with these tubes, very seductive mids.
         Tied for number "2"
1974,75 Reflektor SWGP Reflektors. I know Bob places the 75s as his HG's, his associated equipment and mine are so different, hard for me to choose between the two years. The 74s, in my mind, have a little better bass, 75s, more 3D, spatial. These tubes are very neutral, dynamic, detailed. Not quite as much as the 7308s above, but more so than the Minis. Reasonably priced when available, very rare in matched pairs, unique because of rarity.
          Number "3"
1966 Telefunken E88CC's, Upscale Platinum. These tubes are very neutral also, my first pair of really fine tubes. Airy top end, not as dynamic as the above mentioned tubes, flat frequency response, nice to listen to, not as engaging as the above.
          Number "4"
1958 Miniwatt ECC88, D-Getters. Very euphonic tubes, more so than the E188CC Minis above. Not as detailed as above, but still enjoyable, awesome big bass. Unfortunately one died after less than 20 hours, so somewhat limited time there. Beware some European sellers, had a hard time getting a refund, but in the end Paypal came through.
          Number "5"
1959 Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88. D-Getter. Bought these to replace the 58 Minis above. Strong NOS test#s, perfect printing. But they just don't sound as good as the Minis. Still lovely tubes, good detail, almost bright, but sound almost congested compared to the best tubes above.

I have not even reviewed the tubes yet - but just trying to make a point - to someone who called Russian tubes 'crappy'.

  From my initial listening to these Valvo E188CC's the HG's and '74's are better.
 
Let cooler heads prevail LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 
Steve - you know I love you man!
 
PS You know I respect your opinion and have mentioned and linked to your review here several times recently see:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4830 post#4899
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/4890 post#4837
 
So please be fair as well.

 

[Guidostrunk]

$1000 for a set of tubes? Man, that would get me nearly a lifetime supply of the HG's lol. That's an insane price for a set of tubes.

 

[rb2013]

For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality. 
 
It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.
 
I will not go into my history with these OP for the sake of this epic thread.
 
I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended or the nerves I have touched.  I am just a passion audio guy - sorry for showing to much of my enthusiasm at times.
 
As I have done in the past - I will just leave the thread for a good long while - to let folks settle down.  So for now any tube review will be on indefinite if not permanent hold.  It is just a tremendous amount of time and effort - and just not worth getting attacked over.
 
Enjoy your tube rolling experience - and don't let these petty squabbles turn you off to the great joys to had with this awesome amp firing a great set of tubes.
 
Happy Rolling.

 

[ThurstonX]

   
How are those Siemens CCa's sounding you got not to long ago?  They have always been one of my favorites -especailly the early 60's gray shield version.  So ridiuculslly expensvie not $300-$400 a pair.  Where yours the very early horseshoe getter version?

 
I should have heeded the seller's warning, but I had a balance in my PayPal account, so I took a chance.  Very hummy.  I'll probably give them another run through the Lyr eventually, though I doubt it will help.  The '63 Siemens E88CCs (same factory codes as the wonky CCas, down to the month) are stellar, so I'm not complaining, and the '69 CCas are just fine.  But really, I'm loving these crazy CEi tubes so much it'll be hard to roll another pair.  I reckon after 400-500 hours they'll be properly burned in 

 

[Guidostrunk]

Let the haters , hate Bob. There's a lot of people here who appreciate and respect what you do on here. Don't let a select few ruin it for you, and the many others who admire the time and effort you put into this hobby. By far you and thurstonx have taught me the most about tubes. Although I haven't really interacted much with thurstonx, his posts have helped me tremendously. At the end of the day, regardless of who has what tubes , it's all about the passion we share for music on a different level than most. I truly hope that you reconsider. Don't let them dudes take away your passion man. They definitely ain't worth it. That's my 0.02
Cheers my friend.

For those new here and have not read the old thread - these flame attacks against the 6n23p's are not rare.  I have been through it before and much worse (they had to shut the old thread it got so bad).  Again these amazing tubes have had a constant upstream battle.  No dealer carries them because they are such a pain to find in good quality. 

It's been a one man battle from the start - now of course so many have got to own the best of these and experience their incredible sound quality.  And many have posted here about their great listening experience with these.  But they still face a tremendous bias against them - what I call the 'What no Gold Pins' phenomena.

I will not go into my history with these OP for the sake of this epic thread.

I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended or the nerves I have touched.  I am just a passion audio guy - sorry for showing to much of my enthusiasm at times.

As I have done in the past - I will just leave the thread for a good long while - to let folks settle down.  So for now any tube review will be on indefinite if not permanent hold.  It is just a tremendous amount of time and effort - and just not worth getting attacked over.

Enjoy your tube rolling experience - and don't let these petty squabbles turn you off to the great joys to had with this awesome amp firing a great set of tubes.

Happy Rolling.

 

[lekoross]

Re: Guidostrunk's last post: ++++++++1!!!!!

No one on this thread has been as present and available as rb2013, particularly for new tube rollers like me. He always graciously responds to my PM's, even when my questions are simple and on the level of a first grader in the tube world. This thread will lose half its value if he goes.