[billerb1]

What's your #1?

 


Lol, that interestingly enough goes back to my line about what's 'supposed' to sound good and what's 'supposed' not to.
My best sounding pair to me is actually a 'pair' that by definition isn't even a 'matched pair'. Mixed 1963/1966 pair with different
VR #'s (version numbers). Most would probably say they shouldn't be used together...but they sound like music being rained down from heaven to me.

 

[rb2013]

 

  What's your #1?

 


Lol, that interestingly enough goes back to my line about what's 'supposed' to sound good and what's 'supposed' not to.
My best sounding pair to me is actually a 'pair' that by definition isn't even a 'matched pair'. Mixed 1963/1966 pair with different
VR #'s (version numbers). Most would probably say they shouldn't be used together...but they sound like music being rained down from heaven to me.

Nice!  Have you had your ears checked?  Most folks - especially older have slight hearing imbalances.  The different yrs/production numbers maybe compensating for something like that.  
 
So you say the E188CC Holland 1963 and 1966 are the best for you?  Are they both Philips?

 

[billerb1]

Nice!  Have you had your ears checked?  Most folks - especially older have slight hearing imbalances.  The different yrs/production numbers maybe compensating for something like that.  

So you say the E188CC Holland 1963 and 1966 are the best for you?  Are they both Philips?

LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.

 

[gibosi]

LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.

 
I am of the opinion that probably everyone's ears are slightly different to some degree. After all, the rest of our bodies are not perfectly symmetric - eyes, hands, feet, and so on. Given that, if you switch tubes, left and right, can you detect any difference?

 

[billerb1]

 
I am of the opinion that probably everyone's ears are slightly different to some degree. After all, the rest of our bodies are not perfectly symmetric - eyes, hands, feet, and so on. Given that, if you switch tubes, left and right, can you detect any difference?

 

I've never switched them. Afraid of disturbing the mojo.

 

[rb2013]

LOL, I have in fact been told I am unbalanced. I've always taken that as a compliment. All I know is that they sound the most like being in the studio to me. As close to total engagement as I've heard. And even though they are different version numbers they test almost exactly the same (98/98 and 97/97). And yes Doctor they are both Heerlen Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's. They just have the mojo.

Cheers to the Mojo!

 
I know what you mean - when you have just the right tubes - it's like magic.  That last 5-10% just seems to 'unlock' the door.  Vistas open up, cue the heavenly choir.  For me the HGs are just are so damn entrancing - especially on the Lyr/HD800 combo.  What flow - that extra layer of detail - superb.
 
We are a bit opposite - where you like that focused kind of sound stage - I love the deep and wide kind.  Just a different take on things.  For me, it's when those very subtle ambient clues, buried deep in the mix reveal themselves.  They create this illusion of the space of the original venue - sort of super imposed, or really superseding, the real space your listening in.  A bit spooky at times, when that wrap around effect occurs and you hear stuff behind and around you.  What a trip~!

 

[billerb1]

 
Cheers to the Mojo!

 
I know what you mean - when you have just the right tubes - it's like magic.  That last 5-10% just seems to 'unlock' the door.  Vistas open up, cue the heavenly choir.  For me the HGs are just are so damn entrancing - especially on the Lyr/HD800 combo.  What flow - that extra layer of detail - superb.
 
We are a bit opposite - where you like that focused kind of sound stage - I love the deep and wide kind.  Just a different take on things.  For me, it's when those very subtle ambient clues, buried deep in the mix reveal themselves.  They create this illusion of the space of the original venue - sort of super imposed, or really superseding, the real space your listening in.  A bit spooky at times, when that wrap around effect occurs and you hear stuff behind and around you.  What a trip~!

 Yeah it's all about the mojo...you know that.  We both look for that real instrument timbre and resonance.  That gets away from me if the edges are too far away so I prefer the narrower (but not narrow per say) and more intimate soundstage of the Minis vs your HG's or the Amperex 7308's for that matter.  Your gear blows mine out of the water so I'm just compensating the best I can bro...by whatever means I can Band-Aid together.  I'm sure your setup is amazing.  I envy that.  Enjoy my friend !!

 

[rb2013]

 
 Yeah it's all about the mojo...you know that.  We both look for that real instrument timbre and resonance.  That gets away from me if the edges are too far away so I prefer the narrower (but not narrow per say) and more intimate sound stage of the Minis vs your HG's or the Amperex 7308's for that matter.  Your gear blows mine out of the water so I'm just compensating the best I can bro...by whatever means I can Band-Aid together.  I'm sure your setup is amazing.  I envy that.  Enjoy my friend !!

+1 We definitely are on the same page regarding timbre and resonance.  And gorgeous natural full tone.  Neutral as to pitch, lifelike in dynamics. 
 
I'm a guitar player - and I'm used to the way a real guitar sounds.  The way the resonances reverberate as they trail off - and mix when played. 
 
As an example, go to a music store - even if you're not a musician, go to the acoustic guitar room - grab a totl Taylor, Gibson, or Takamine - then just pluck one middle sting with your ear close by and let the resonances just trail off.  They persist much longer,  and trail off more softly then you could imagine.  But it's also the immediate loudness of the micro-dynamic snap of a plucked string.  And that's just a lowly acoustic guitar - it also applies to all the other instruments and vocals.  That's what I'm looking to recreate. 
 
Cheers my friend!

 

[billerb1]

+1 We definitely are on the same page regarding timbre and resonance.  And gorgeous natural full tone.  Neutral as to pitch, lifelike in dynamics. 

I'm a guitar player - and I'm used to the way a real guitar sounds.  The way the resonances reverberate as they trail off - and mix when played. 

As an example, go to a music store - even if you're not a musician, go to the acoustic guitar room - grab a totl Taylor, Gibson, or Takamine - then just pluck one middle sting with your ear close by and let the resonances just trail off.  They persist much longer,  and trail off more softly then you could imagine.  But it's also the immediate loudness of the micro-dynamic snap of a plucked string.  And that's just a lowly acoustic guitar - it also applies to all the other instruments and vocals.  That's what I'm looking to recreate. 

Cheers my friend!

Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
Great stuff.
Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.

 

[satwilson]

Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
Great stuff.
Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.

First off, Bob and Bill are having too much fun here, LOL I really appreciate both of you, as you two are my "tubemuses". To both of you, I will soon offer my E188CC Miniwatt review, BOTH of you have requested. To Bob, what I was suggesting in my last post was this. I recently bought a pair of 1960, NY made Amperex, "PQ" 7308's, D-Getters, pristine NOS, with original military boxes, from "Unbalanced" Bill, my good fortune!!!! If you desire, I will ship them to you for your big "Shootout", simply as a reference for same, you ship them back to me. Brent Jesse sells these for $425/pr, when available???? He has a single right now. Please read his description on his website. Quite frankly these are harder to find/buy than "pinched waist" tubes. Search the "net"!!!! If you would like to audition these for your "Shootout", I will ship them to you. Let me know, ME      PS, Bill, gotta get  the "River" download. She/they are some of my absolute fave musicians. Check out "A Tribute to Joni Mitchell", Nonesuch 122620-2. Start with cut#6, A Case of You", by Prince, then #7 by Sara M......................... Some are so-so, the rest sublime, TEARS!!! 

 

[sling5s]

Does the Lyr 2 require matched tubes?  I have some identical vintage telefunken tubes coming that have slightly different measurements. 
 
Edit: I guess Schiit requires matched tube according to their manual.

 

[rb2013]

Yeah as you know Bob I'm a drummer...been gigging out since 9th grade and I'm 62 now. I look for as close to that live playing sound as I can with my setup. That's one of the reasons why I like the Miniwatt presentation. It carries that same "surrounded " by the sound feel of being behind the drum kit. And the depth and "bottoms" of the drums and the subtle nuances of the cymbals sound more realistic to me...like your acoustic guitar reference. Probably a little too "in your face" for a lot of people but exactly what I look for.
Great stuff.
Just downloaded the Herbie Hancock album River in 96/24 FLAC...the one where he does all the Joni Mitchell songs (with an incredible band...Wayne Shorter, Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Holland, Larry Klein and Lionel Loueke). It'a a perfect example of that intimate upfront presentation. You can almost touch all the instruments. The timbre of his piano is particularly exquisite.

++1 Yes! Snares and Cymbals are my other 'tests' - especially cymbals. 
 
Can you hear the brushes sweep off the cymbals? Do the cymbals resonate as a 3D point source in a holographic sound field?  Or is it just a flattish 2D cardboard cutout in staggered sound field - sounding like 'hissing' snakes?  In other words, do they emanate out in all directions, the very subtle ambient back and side reflections captured in the recording, revealed and recreating that effect?  Are the cymbal taps flat - or do they have that natural reverberation.  Speaking of Jazz - on Cory Christiansen's 'Awakening' - the opening track 'Awakening', it's awash in Danny Gotlieb's awesome cymbal work  - taps, brush sweeps, high hats, rides, crashes, you name it.  All accompanied by Cory' amazing smooth jazz guitar and Mark N's Bass.  Great stuff.  It's particularly good on my big main system with the 5ft tall Maggie panels - very lifelike!
 
BTW - I love that Hancock album!

 

[rb2013]

  First off, Bob and Bill are having too much fun here, LOL I really appreciate both of you, as you two are my "tubemuses". To both of you, I will soon offer my E188CC Miniwatt review, BOTH of you have requested. To Bob, what I was suggesting in my last post was this. I recently bought a pair of 1960, NY made Amperex, "PQ" 7308's, D-Getters, pristine NOS, with original military boxes, from "Unbalanced" Bill, my good fortune!!!! If you desire, I will ship them to you for your big "Shootout", simply as a reference for same, you ship them back to me. Brent Jesse sells these for $425/pr, when available???? He has a single right now. Please read his description on his website. Quite frankly these are harder to find/buy than "pinched waist" tubes. Search the "net"!!!! If you would like to audition these for your "Shootout", I will ship them to you. Let me know, ME      PS, Bill, gotta get  the "River" download. She/they are some of my absolute fave musicians. Check out "A Tribute to Joni Mitchell", Nonesuch 122620-2. Start with cut#6, A Case of You", by Prince, then #7 by Sara M......................... Some are so-so, the rest sublime, TEARS!!! 

Hi Steve,
 
Thanks for the kind offer.  But I'd be too worried that something might happen in two-way shipping to such wonderful and rare tubes.  I'm still looking for some '60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s or 6922s.  I've had both and actually preferred the 6922 version - but they are very close and it could have been just individual variance.
 
I've had many PQ D getter white prints in the past - probably not as early as the ones you have.  They're are very good as well.  A bit more euphonic then the USN CEPs to my ears.

 

[rb2013]

  Does the Lyr 2 require matched tubes?  I have some identical vintage telefunken tubes coming that have slightly different measurements. 
 
Edit: I guess Schiit requires matched tube according to their manual.

Yes - matching is very important.  The two tubes (and yes each section of the dual triode is used in the Lyr) work in concert to reproduce the stereo effect.  Mismatches will blur detail and mask those low level ambient clues that 'trick' the ear into recreating a realistic sound field.  Of course this blurring will mask other details - like deep layer percussion (think bells and such) and background vocals.

 

[satwilson]

 
Hi Steve,
 
Thanks for the kind offer.  But I'd be too worried that something might happen in two-way shipping to such wonderful and rare tubes.  I'm still looking for some '60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s or 6922s.  I've had both and actually preferred the 6922 version - but they are very close and it could have been just individual variance.
 
I've had many PQ D getter white prints in the past - probably not as early as the ones you have.  They're are very good as well.  A bit more euphonic then the USN CEPs to my ears.

I am always impressed by the depth of your "rolling" history. Your description of the tubes mentioned above is the same as my limited exposure. The 60s Amperex CEP USN 7308s you are looking for, should of course be essentially the same as what I have, depending on which year, getter construction you choose. I was surprised my 7308s are considerably less euphonic than say my Miniwatt E188s. Bill had described this to me before I got them from him. Do you have any preference for the "D" or "O" getters? As always, I look forward to your latest "shootout", roll on!!