[paradoxper]

Quote:

Thats it! Flat is exactly what it felt to me, just goes to show how important tubes are, I wonder why they don't ship them with more musical tubes?

I think the simple answer is costs. 

 

[jwusoccer]

Quote:

I think the simple answer is costs. 

Paradoxper, during the time you had your lyr, did you ever replace the stock tubes? If so, which ones do you recommend for the hd650s for under 150 dollars. I've been doing a lot of research, but there are so many choices that i'm completely lost, lol.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

Paradoxper, during the time you had your lyr, did you ever replace the stock tubes? If so, which ones do you recommend for the hd650s for under 150 dollars. I've been doing a lot of research, but there are so many choices that i'm completely lost, lol.

Hey jwusoccer,
 
I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
I'm not keeping up with tube inflation atm, so sorry if I recommend something out of budget.
 
Top recommendations I'd give for that budget and good matches for 
that headphone. Gold Lions and RCA black plates and clear tops.
 
The Siemen A-frames were one of the best tubes w/HD650. Not sure how much they run,
I got mine for $120 from my buddy Mrscary.
 
There are tons of good sources to learn about tubes, although you really need to experience
different varieties of 'em to grasp the different sonics.

 

[kLevkoff]

After reading a lot of posts about "tube rolling" - especially with headphone amps - I just had to comment.....
 
I've been around tubes for a lot of years. When I was in high school (late 1970's), tubes were "on the way out" and tube equipment could be had for pretty much nothing at garage sales and flea markets. Most of the few remaining bits of tube equipment in use were things like test equipment (a LOT of those old Tektronix scopes with thirty or forty, or even more,  12AX7's and 12AU7's in them). The last big box of 12AX&'s I saw ended up in a trash bin because nobody wanted them. My point, however, is this......
 
In those days (when those NOS tubes people are paying so much for today were actually NEW) we didn't consider them to be very much different. In fact, they were considered pretty much interchangeable. We would cheerfully mix and match Mullards, Telefunkens, and RCAs.... nobody considered one to be especially better than the other. (Some designations, like GA, GB, etc specified lower noise, or specific gain characteristics - but my point is that nobody ever felt that a given brand, or "plate style" or "plate color" SOUNDED any better than any other.) Sure, we considered Gold Lions to be a "premium brand"... but, in those days, that meant we expected them to last a bit longer... and so we were willing to pay $15 apiece instead of $10. All the other manufacturers CLAIMED that their version was better, but nobody much heard any useful difference, and so nobody believed them. In fact, if a certain amp made them sound different, then we considered it to be a poor design - since the design should ideally be entirely independent of the tubes. if we matched "peanut tubes", it was so the whole row of them were the same size and color... at most. 
 
To anybody who was serious about audio back when tubes really WERE "current", the whole idea that a certain Telefunken 12AX7 with a certain plate shape is somehow "better" than an RCA (or is worth hundreds of dollars more) is just silly. To us, it seems a bit like "beer aficionados" sitting around discussing spending hundreds of dollars for various five year old supermarket six-packs. Sure, a five year old can of Bud will probably taste different than a five year old can of Mick, and it'll probably also taste different than a NEW bottle of Bud... 
but that doesn't mean you'd pay $200 for that difference.
 
Sure, tubes sound slightly different, so, by all means, try different ones.... but there's no good reason to specifically expect some rare old German tube to sound better than some cheap new Russian one... "rare" has nothing to do with "good". (OK, some new Russian and Chinese brands in specific really are SUBstandard... but that doesn't "prove" that every old rare one is good.) Those tubes that are going for hundreds of dollars today really WERE nothing more than supermarket brands when they were originally sold.... (and, for anyone who thinks that "old" and rare equate with valuable, I have some old junk .... er.... treasures... from my basement that I'll be glad to sell you for a truly ridiculous amount of money... )
 
 
Quote:

Hey jwusoccer,
 
I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
I'm not keeping up with tube inflation atm, so sorry if I recommend something out of budget.
 
Top recommendations I'd give for that budget and good matches for 
that headphone. Gold Lions and RCA black plates and clear tops.
 
The Siemen A-frames were one of the best tubes w/HD650. Not sure how much they run,
I got mine for $120 from my buddy Mrscary.
 
There are tons of good sources to learn about tubes, although you really need to experience
different varieties of 'em to grasp the different sonics.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
 
Sure, tubes sound slightly different, so, by all means, try different ones.... but there's no good reason to specifically expect some rare old German tube to sound better than some cheap new Russian one... "rare" has nothing to do with "good". (OK, some new Russian and Chinese brands in specific really are SUBstandard... but that doesn't "prove" that every old rare one is good.) Those tubes that are going for hundreds of dollars today really WERE nothing more than supermarket brands when they were originally sold.... (and, for anyone who thinks that "old" and rare equate with valuable, I have some old junk .... er.... treasures... from my basement that I'll be glad to sell you for a truly ridiculous amount of money... )
 
 

No one here touted night and day differences. Tubes sound different and different = better by preference. So you could expect the German tube to sound better than the Russian one.
Of course, this would be dependent upon your research (hopefully you do your HW). The Lorenz Stuttgart is much better than say the stock GE's. You sure can disagree, but of course, this is just. IMO.

 

[jwusoccer]

Quote:

After reading a lot of posts about "tube rolling" - especially with headphone amps - I just had to comment.....
 
I've been around tubes for a lot of years. When I was in high school (late 1970's), tubes were "on the way out" and tube equipment could be had for pretty much nothing at garage sales and flea markets. Most of the few remaining bits of tube equipment in use were things like test equipment (a LOT of those old Tektronix scopes with thirty or forty, or even more,  12AX7's and 12AU7's in them). The last big box of 12AX&'s I saw ended up in a trash bin because nobody wanted them. My point, however, is this......
 
In those days (when those NOS tubes people are paying so much for today were actually NEW) we didn't consider them to be very much different. In fact, they were considered pretty much interchangeable. We would cheerfully mix and match Mullards, Telefunkens, and RCAs.... nobody considered one to be especially better than the other. (Some designations, like GA, GB, etc specified lower noise, or specific gain characteristics - but my point is that nobody ever felt that a given brand, or "plate style" or "plate color" SOUNDED any better than any other.) Sure, we considered Gold Lions to be a "premium brand"... but, in those days, that meant we expected them to last a bit longer... and so we were willing to pay $15 apiece instead of $10. All the other manufacturers CLAIMED that their version was better, but nobody much heard any useful difference, and so nobody believed them. In fact, if a certain amp made them sound different, then we considered it to be a poor design - since the design should ideally be entirely independent of the tubes. if we matched "peanut tubes", it was so the whole row of them were the same size and color... at most. 
 
To anybody who was serious about audio back when tubes really WERE "current", the whole idea that a certain Telefunken 12AX7 with a certain plate shape is somehow "better" than an RCA (or is worth hundreds of dollars more) is just silly. To us, it seems a bit like "beer aficionados" sitting around discussing spending hundreds of dollars for various five year old supermarket six-packs. Sure, a five year old can of Bud will probably taste different than a five year old can of Mick, and it'll probably also taste different than a NEW bottle of Bud... 
but that doesn't mean you'd pay $200 for that difference.
 
Sure, tubes sound slightly different, so, by all means, try different ones.... but there's no good reason to specifically expect some rare old German tube to sound better than some cheap new Russian one... "rare" has nothing to do with "good". (OK, some new Russian and Chinese brands in specific really are SUBstandard... but that doesn't "prove" that every old rare one is good.) Those tubes that are going for hundreds of dollars today really WERE nothing more than supermarket brands when they were originally sold.... (and, for anyone who thinks that "old" and rare equate with valuable, I have some old junk .... er.... treasures... from my basement that I'll be glad to sell you for a truly ridiculous amount of money... )
 
 

I had no idea they were all so cheap before, lol. Anyways, i'm not looking for a a huge improvement, just a different sound that i might like more. A lot of people on this thread seem to think tubes can change the sound a lot, and I've never heard anything but the stock ones so i might as well give it a try.
 
Quote:

Hey jwusoccer,
 
I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
I'm not keeping up with tube inflation atm, so sorry if I recommend something out of budget.
 
Top recommendations I'd give for that budget and good matches for 
that headphone. Gold Lions and RCA black plates and clear tops.
 
The Siemen A-frames were one of the best tubes w/HD650. Not sure how much they run,
I got mine for $120 from my buddy Mrscary.
 
There are tons of good sources to learn about tubes, although you really need to experience
different varieties of 'em to grasp the different sonics.

Hmm i'll definitely look into those. Thanks a lot!

 

[satanigatan]

Kind of a weird question.

But has anyone ever heard of being shocked by the Schiit lyr? Recently I was using my Schiit Lyr on my desk, and all of a sudden I felt a weird pain in my left leg, and it reminded me of when I've been shocked in the past. I quickly got up and left the room after turning off the Lyr.

I'm thinking it was just a panic attack. But still, I wanted to make sure I'm taking all the safety pre-cautions. My questions are:

I. Is it possible to get shocked by the Lyr? (I don't mean touching the tubes, or the device while on. I just mean in general - can it travel?)

II. I'm plugging it in to a standard wall socket, using a strip. The cable is on my floor (which is carpet). That is the only thing that touches the floor (the cable). The Lyr is on my wooden desk elevated.

III. If the tubes aren't in all the way properly, could it do this?

Based on everything I said, is it possible? I know this is a really stupid/silly question. Probably just me overreacting. I just wanted to check off 100% that it's not possible.

 

[Rebel975]

Seems like it would only be possible if you were using a 3 prong to 2 prong power outlet adapter.

 

[satanigatan]

Seems like it would only be possible if you were using a 3 prong to 2 prong power outlet adapter.

Just checked, my Lyr was plugged into a three prong power strip which plugged into a three prong extension which plugs into a three prong wall outlet.

So: Lyr > power strip > extension > wall outlet. All are three prong. Would that be an issue?

Also the extension has two two prong slots being used. So the extension itself is three prong connected to the power strip and the wall outlet, but it has two 2 prong slots extra on the side that are being used.

 

[Rebel975]

Quote:

Just checked, my Lyr was plugged into a three prong power strip which plugged into a three prong extension which plugs into a three prong wall outlet.
So: Lyr > power strip > extension > wall outlet. All are three prong. Would that be an issue?
Also the extension has two two prong slots being used. So the extension itself is three prong connected to the power strip and the wall outlet, but it has two 2 prong slots extra on the side that are being used.

 
 
I would email support@schiit.com and ask, but I'm pretty sure if you did get shocked, it would be because the Lyr had catastrophically failed, AND you are using a 3 to 2 prong adapter. That third prong is supposed to protect the end user, as far as I'm aware, by providing a solid ground connection.

 

[Sniping]

What are good value tubes to go with the HFM HE-400's?

 

[Bananaheadlin]

I emailed Schiit and confirmed my findings from my research that the Lyr would not be a good fit for my closed DT770/80. Would anybody explain what that means though. The output is too high that it starts to change the signature of the DT770, or..
 
What is changed from giving these lower impedance headphones a great output?

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

I emailed Schiit and confirmed my findings from my research that the Lyr would not be a good fit for my closed DT770/80. Would anybody explain what that means though. The output is too high that it starts to change the signature of the DT770, or..
 
What is changed from giving these lower impedance headphones a great output?

Ask them why. The Lyr should be stable into most any load.
 
How sensitive is the DT? If very sensitive then you are more apt to pick up noise from the tubes, which can be a downer for some. I use my Ultrasone Ed. 9 and I can hear tube noise, even on my quietest and finest tubes, though very low but I don't mind as the music drowns out any noise with my sensitive phones. If I wanted a totally quiet amp and only used very sensitive phones then I would use a different amp but I use orthos etc.

 

[SgtFarva]

Uber noob question
 
Can I hook up my studio monitors to the pre-amp on the lyr and control the volume on the lyr?

 

[Mediahound]

Quote:

Uber noob question
 
Can I hook up my studio monitors to the pre-amp on the lyr and control the volume on the lyr?

Yep, if they're powered. Works well. I listen to the Lyr about 70% of the time like that (Audioengine A5+ speakers).