--snip--
I no longer own any vinyl, but I do like the argument of having a top quality, spelled multibit, home ADC component to transfer treasured vinyl collections to server audio files for future proofing. Who knows how extensive that potential market still is, but we do know that vinyl collection is alive and growing... May actually be a viable Schiit product even at yggy pricing if it can tout comparable performance.
We may yet become spoiled with a plethora of audiophilic abundance. If Mike and Jason can somehow convince themselves that they wouldn't take it in the shorts with this one. Certainly the ADC topic is recurrent here.
Hmm, That's kind of where this started, With the Mani being such a great piece of gear even though there are countless Phono stages out there, however even stereophile had a whole write up on it and the roots it has from Mikes Phono stage over 30 years ago. So all we pondered was a Moderately price ADC that can get a close to accurate digital representation of Records for which CD's do not exist. Somehow we are talking about mic's and pro gear and concerts.
So lets Take it Back to a Plain Jane ADC that will complement the Mani for those of us who want a digital version on records for which digital version do not exist. A Piece of gear that is a Mani complement . That's it, Mastering, Mixing, All of that is done. So that's is not even a factor here so it is a moot point.
I think it is great for those that love DS dacs and SD ADC's Awesome. That's great you work in the "pro" world. and all. I for one will put my money in the person who has designed and built some very notable products in the analog and digital world. Currawong and crew may smack my hand here but that is, in my opinion like a college Science teacher arguing with Einstein or Newton about their own work.
My lack of respect for delta sigma DACs is only slightly exceeded by the same for sigma delta A2D converters - they are suitable for cheap (oops, inexpensive) prosumer stuff. How much is it worth for a user to digitize their vinyl?? Think about it. If they were making original recordings, it would be worth a bit more. Easy to do for Bifrost money or less, and amazing in the context of all of the other insipid stuff out there.
To do a real multi-bit megacomboburrito deal recording at balanced in at 24 bit 250-500KHz sampling rate AES/EBU out (USB is for children and feral wannabe engineers) as good as the stuff I made (Gain 1) for Mobile Fidelity is going to cost like an Yggy. But it will be really *** good. How many people really need that? Wants and needs are different.
I was away for a while and missed the sidebar into 32-channel ADC-DAC pro gear, thank goodness, since that's not what this thread is focussed around. The primary reason the pro gear uses Sigma-Deta ADCs is because it's cheap, especially when you need one on each channel (so that pro gear referenced above has a
minimum of 32 ADC-DACs on board), and the job they do is good enough for rock'n'roll. (But maybe not jazz...
. There's the added cost that pro gear needs to be able to survive being roughly thrown onto a tour bus or rig every night and driven over the mountains or deserts in an uninsulated dusty compartment.
And asking why anyone would bother making a better non-SD ADC when there's so many adequate and even some good ones out there already is exactly like asking why Schiit would bother making a better non-SD DAC when there's so many adequate and even some good ones out there already. If you don't know the answer to that by now, you haven't gone back far enough in this thread (hint: start with
Chapter 33).
Jason said Schiit is going to be focussing a little more on 2-channel gear in the next year(s?). TWO channel gear, note.
Now, let's revisit that throwaway question Baldr asked: "How much is it worth for a user to digitize their vinyl?"
Lemme see - a quick thumbnail count of my wall o' vinyl and let's guess I've got a smallish collection of 1,200 albums. At least 50% are played to crap and not worth recording due to surface noise, so that's 600 left. Of those, 2/3 have jumped the digital divide so I can buy them on CD if I want, leaving 200. Of those 200, let's say I'm interested in adding about half of them to my iTunes collection, so that's about 100 records.
Acknowledging that albums have to be recorded in real time (no hi-speed dubbing cassettes here!), and that each record averages 40 minutes for both sides, that's around 70 hours of my life. For an investment like that (time is the most valuable thing we own) I want to make sure I do the job right the first time so I don't have to repeat it and I want to do it to the best quality I can afford.
I already have multiple phono stages in the house, but if I didn't the Mani does a
more than adequate job, not only according to Stereophile, but according to pro-sound guys I know that love it, use it, recommend it, and install it for their client base.
So I don't need a combination Mani + ADC, I just need an ADC. Spreading the cost of one over 100 albums at $5 an album, or even $10 per those 70 hours, means that a $500 - $700 multibit ADC would make sense. If we take Baldr at his word that it's "Easy to do for Bifrost money or less" then a $400 multibit DAC would be a bargain, and one in the Modi / Magni / Mani price range would be a screaming deal. And despite Baldr's distain for the technology, at this price range and intended use the product would have to output to USB, and use RCA inputs. And although I'm happy keeping my music at Redbook quality, I'd want the option to record at a higher resolution so I have room for a hiss/click/noise-removal pass before outputting the final version. Since it's Schiit after all, maybe a headphone jack for monitoring...
(but that's not as critical in ripping LPs as it is in making a live recording).
Moving up the scale, a full-on GAIN I quality ADC could happily live in the $1,200 - $2,200 range of the Gugnir Mulitbit or Yggdrasil. Here is where you have balanced inputs and AES outputs alongside the RCA inputs and toslink, S/PDIF and USB outputs. Perhaps that's the Gugnir level, and the Yggi level adds multiple inputs (not multiple channels, still just 2-channel), with FireWire and Thunderbolt output.
In my case, the $2,200 TOTL Schiit ADC would translate to $33 / hr. for my paltry 100 LP conversion: more than I earn an hour right now and not worth it. But it would make sense for someone with a much larger collection and plenty of time, or those who use it professionally.
Which brings us to Baldr's followup question, "How many people really need that?"
Well, without doing a survey (and we know what Jason thinks of those...
I would say that the market for a Mani / Modi price range ADC would pretty much be the same as or larger than the market for the Mani itself, numbers Schiit already has on hand and which Baldr characterized as unexpectedly healthy. From there, it's pretty simple to use the rule of thumb: double the price, halve the sales. Until you get to the TOTL product: Jason has also said that demand for the Yggi exceeded their expectations and the first 2,000 sold out almost right away.
I know Baldr and Jason both have said they have no interest in getting into the pro audio gear: it's not their bailiwick. At $2,200 they're definately going to have pro audio guys looking their way, and that may be more trouble than it's worth. It might be worth it however if they develop the GAIN I technology for the expensive model, then trickle it down to the point where it more than pays for the R&D as was done with Schiit's multibit DACs.
But I truly believe a 2-channel multibit ADC for Bifrost money would absolutely sell to the home-audio, LP-ripping crowd. And one for Mani money would fly out the door.