Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Nov 11, 2016 at 1:37 PM Post #13,951 of 82,335

dmckean44

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  Reality check on any future small Class AB speaker amp:
 
1. It wouldn't be Magni/Modi size. That's the realm of Class D. Period.
2. It wouldn't be 60 watts in Asgard/Valhalla size. That's outside the realm of power dissipation reality.
3. It wouldn't be $100, or $150, or probably even $200. 
 
If we did anything, it would be Valhalla/Asgard sized,15-20 watts per channel, $249-299. Which is why I'm not so excited about it. Specs-wise, it doesn't appeal to many who will simply look at the superior power output and smaller size/cost of Class D and call it a day.


I have a hard time believing you can very successfully market headphone amps with 5 unique topologies (none of which are Class D), with both solid state and tubes, and at all different prices points but there would somehow be no market for a desktop amp for someone that cares a little about sound quality.
 
Something Asgard sized, 20 watts and a unique topology for under $300 sounds handy to me.
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 1:38 PM Post #13,952 of 82,335

JoeKickass

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I do not want something that requires a second pile of Schiit.
 

 
You know the U-bend chassis of the Asgard might look pretty good if it had the option of standing vertical like the Audioengine N22:
 

 
It would be an entirely different Schiit stack... the Schiit Tower!
 
With the transformer side down it would be pretty stable, just needs some little feet.
That way people who want to can lay it flat or if already have a stack, can have a tower!
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 1:41 PM Post #13,953 of 82,335

RickB

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You know the U-bend chassis of the Asgard might look pretty good if it had the option of standing vertical like the Audioengine N22:
 

 
It would be an entirely different Schiit stack... the Schiit Tower!
 
With the transformer side down it would be pretty stable, just needs some little feet.
That way people who want to can lay it flat or if already have a stack, can have a tower!

Schiit already says you can stand the Asgard 2 like that if you want. 
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 1:48 PM Post #13,954 of 82,335

jacal01

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I would think that 15-20 WPC would be satisfactory for a pair of quality near field speakers, which is most likely what a desk listening environment would be.  And in this case, quality would be the discriminator, and altho you may miss out on the market segment of audio neophytes doing comparison shopping solely on prices, good ad copy can probably make significant inroads in highlighting the audio fidelity differences to be touted at any price.  Which in this case is still embarrassingly reasonable.  This stuff could write itself, given the competition.
 
And as we all know, when it comes to marketing ad copy, who's our daddy?    
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 1:52 PM Post #13,955 of 82,335

vonh

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  Reality check on any future small Class AB speaker amp:
 
1. It wouldn't be Magni/Modi size. That's the realm of Class D. Period.
2. It wouldn't be 60 watts in Asgard/Valhalla size. That's outside the realm of power dissipation reality.
3. It wouldn't be $100, or $150, or probably even $200. 
 
If we did anything, it would be Valhalla/Asgard sized,15-20 watts per channel, $249-299.

 
This thread has been a perfect example of the phenomenon you described in the previous chapter "Why You Can't Always Get What You Want". That said, the amp you described right there is exactly what I had in mind when I made my original post. Naturally, an ideal product for me is not necessarily an ideal product for anyone else, but if you sift through the fluff that creeps into any discussion of a potential product it would appear I'm not the only one.
 
In regards to
 
Specs-wise, it doesn't appeal to many who will simply look at the superior power output and smaller size/cost of Class D and call it a day.

 
The exact same argument could be applied to the Asgard, and we all know how that worked out in the end. 
beyersmile.png

 
Whether something like that ends up finding a place in the Schiit lineup or not, I'm glad it's generated some discussion here. In doing so others have mentioned some products which warrant a closer look for me or others on the hunt for an affordable, no frills, well built, non-class-d, desktop sized speaker amplifier.
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 3:23 PM Post #13,956 of 82,335

bellahsu

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  Reality check on any future small Class AB speaker amp:
 
1. It wouldn't be Magni/Modi size. That's the realm of Class D. Period.
2. It wouldn't be 60 watts in Asgard/Valhalla size. That's outside the realm of power dissipation reality.
3. It wouldn't be $100, or $150, or probably even $200. 
 
If we did anything, it would be Valhalla/Asgard sized,15-20 watts per channel, $249-299. Which is why I'm not so excited about it. Specs-wise, it doesn't appeal to many who will simply look at the superior power output and smaller size/cost of Class D and call it a day.

I'll ditch my class D desktop amp in a heartbeat if Schiit offers a Valhalla/Asgard sized,15-20 watts amp that sounds as good as that of Nelson Pass' amp camp kit.
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 5:38 PM Post #13,958 of 82,335

sam6550a

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How do I access "see my signature". I am very interested in the 'start up agonies" of Jason and Mike, and read them for information and entertainment. Your actions to capture all of these words of wisdom into one document are appreciated and laudable. So, how do I access this tome??
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 5:45 PM Post #13,959 of 82,335

Mr Rick

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How do I access "see my signature". I am very interested in the 'start up agonies" of Jason and Mike, and read them for information and entertainment. Your actions to capture all of these words of wisdom into one document are appreciated and laudable. So, how do I access this tome??

 
Just "right click" on the link in his signature to see the info you require.
 
Also, welcome to Head-Fi.
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM Post #13,962 of 82,335

ToddRaymond

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20 watts at 8 ohm, current feedback/pivot point, in a Asgard-sized chassis (though larger is fine), $299 or less, and I'm in.  Bedroom system.  I'd use my Vali 2 or Lyr 2 as a preamp.  I've got some fairly efficient older Kefs that I got for a great price.  It would make for a nice upgrade to my Audioengine A2s.
 
Nov 11, 2016 at 6:53 PM Post #13,963 of 82,335

FLTWS

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Hi Jason,
Speaking of horrors from the past, will Vidar handle the impedance swings of the infamous Infinity 9 Kappas? Yes, I have a pair that I have been using with solid state and tube amps since they were new ($2800 in mid 1980s). Want to buy them?

 
LOL, my brother had a pair of RS-1's (2 6ft x 3 or 4 foot curved panels with ribbons and 2 6 foot towers with 6 (?) woofers each), fantastic when they were working. Can't tell you the number of amps we smoked driving them.
 
Nov 12, 2016 at 4:19 AM Post #13,964 of 82,335

Blue Warper

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  I have no need for an amp like this. That said, if you build one Jason, I'd be tempted to create a reason to buy one.


This.
Moreover, Jason, when it comes to deciding between an integrated and a power amp, I think that:
1) many headphone people already have a headphone amp with a pre-out: so they might not need a pre-amp section in an integrated amp;
2) having all the chassis size available for a power amp, instead of splitting it into a pre- and a power- amp section, could surely release some research, development and production money, which might then go into a higher budget for a power section only.
 
Oh, and if you're looking into making such an amp Asgard/Bifrost-sized, I think that a balanced input, along with one or two SE ones, would be nice (I think many Jotunheim or soon-to-appear Saga and Freya owners will be happy to plug them into a power amp using balanced inputs&outputs, considering, apart from the other things, the higher balanced-output signal).
 
Nov 12, 2016 at 7:28 AM Post #13,965 of 82,335

bigro

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This.
Moreover, Jason, when it comes to deciding between an integrated and a power amp, I think that:
1) many headphone people already have a headphone amp with a pre-out: so they might not need a pre-amp section in an integrated amp;
2) having all the chassis size available for a power amp, instead of splitting it into a pre- and a power- amp section, could surely release some research, development and production money, which might then go into a higher budget for a power section only.
 
Oh, and if you're looking into making such an amp Asgard/Bifrost-sized, I think that a balanced input, along with one or two SE ones, would be nice (I think many Jotunheim or soon-to-appear Saga and Freya owners will be happy to plug them into a power amp using balanced inputs&outputs, considering, apart from the other things, the higher balanced-output signal).

I believe balanced= 2 times the parts. Which will means higher cost and possibly Larger Chassis. It maybe a big enough challenge in itself fitting Class A or Class A/B components, Power section and heat sink into a Asgard Sized Chassis. But also keeping it around the price point we have been discussing will limit what can be added. I think Jason's Concerns of the Viability of a "desktop" sized power amp holds water. If it is to big or too expensive I believe it will be another case of the Loki. 
 
I have Been thinking about KoshNaranek's comment about a volume control. While on the desktop or being used with a pre amp it may not help it will allow this hypothetical amp to have use cases beyond the desk. And Since Schiit has now gone beyond the desk where do you place this product? Maybe A Volume Control but with a Bypass Switch on the Rear , Kind of like the power selector switches found on some other electronics may be an option. Of course there will be the added cost of the don't be dumb@ss sticker and flip this switch to bypass while powered on etc. I Do see this as a slippery slope because then you would want more than one input since its kind of an integrated but not. Maybe a Jot Inspired SYS Add on card? Yeah Sounds like a Mad man's idea because it is. But the SYS is Passive and not heavy on components and clearly not a super expensive Item. Want a Pure Power Amp To stack with your Saga or Asgard, leave the card out. Want a mini integrated Add it in. Is this technically feasible? I have no clue and the Idea did come to me while having a drink so it's questionable at best. I can see scenarios where I would use an integrated and where I would not. Oh Well Pie in the Sky and I am sure Jason's Eye's are watering Now from the past few pages, As he Already has His Plate Full with The Pre Amps and Vidar
 

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