Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Aug 6, 2022 at 5:34 PM Post #97,667 of 100,514

Pedro Janeiro

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Hi guys, I'm looking for a new dac, after I sold my Bifrost 2.
Has anyone compared the new Bifrost 2/64 with Gungnir, is the later still a good/valid option between the two?
thanks
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 5:36 PM Post #97,668 of 100,514

W3WEB

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And now we’re on page 6510, the CPU of the Commodore 64! There’s some memories, not only the games, the music, and loading times from tape but it’s the system I started programming on (in the built-in BASIC V2), and I’m still at it, mostly on other systems but sometimes still on my old ‘64 :ksc75smile:

2029329D-A46E-4EAD-9FFF-23E729369834.gif
Ha! You beat me to it... I fondly remember the ol' c-64 - Another amazing machine for the price. Among many innovations besides the specialty 6510 cpu; it had sprite graphics and a very good sound (SID) chip. And the 1541 disk drive used serial communications between it and the computer --- about 20 years before USB did this kind of thing a lot faster. Listening to some Talking Heads to get my 80's groove.

And y'all are warned now - when we reach pages 8080, 8086, 8087, and 8088 - I'm going to celebrate some of the most influential Intel chips that still echo even today. Not sine wave worthy because after 8088; it's a looong way to 68000, 80286, 80386, etc.
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 5:42 PM Post #97,669 of 100,514

Ripper2860

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I think the 8086 is one of the most under-rated of Intel chips.
 
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Aug 6, 2022 at 5:55 PM Post #97,670 of 100,514

DougD

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And the winner is….

The guy who sold you all those tubes at today’s crazy pricing :ksc75smile:
I wish.

I have one KenRad VT-231 for my Lyr3. Ordered a pair of RCA 5692's and a pair of Sylvania GTB's for my Freya+ in April, those have not shipped yet. (The guy I ordered them from said he was running a couple of months behind, and he was right.)

Other than that, I have just a few newly manufactured tubes, JJs and Electro-Harmonix.

If Schiit does make something like the Freya Einvigi, it would suck me into the rabbit hole of being a tube roller.
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 6:14 PM Post #97,671 of 100,514

Odin412

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Bifrost 2/64 in the house, Installed in HT/Music system in living room for use with music - replacing original version Gungnir MB. Initial impressions very positive. Bifrost is brighter and more engaging than Gungnir while Gungnir is darker and more bass-heavy.
Interesting - thanks for sharing! I haven't really looked into the Gungnir before, but maybe I should - it sounds like it's closer to my preferences.
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 6:15 PM Post #97,672 of 100,514

bcowen

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I wish.

I have one KenRad VT-231 for my Lyr3. Ordered a pair of RCA 5692's and a pair of Sylvania GTB's for my Freya+ in April, those have not shipped yet. (The guy I ordered them from said he was running a couple of months behind, and he was right.)

Other than that, I have just a few newly manufactured tubes, JJs and Electro-Harmonix.

If Schiit does make something like the Freya Einvigi, it would suck me into the rabbit hole of being a tube roller.
But it's such a luxurious, well-appointed hole. Problem is that once you check in, you can never leave. 🤣
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 7:21 PM Post #97,674 of 100,514

Alcophone

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I have zero clue as to what you are speaking on
This means I failed to communicate effectively! Some time passes between a DAC receiving a digital signal and the corresponding analog signal coming out of it, and I endeavored to quantify that delay or latency.

That delay appears to be less than 4 ms for Schiit DACs. So if I watch a video and the sound gets reproduced 75 ms later than it should, it's probably mostly not the DAC's fault.

That said, replacing a DAC with 1 ms latency with one that has 4 ms latency may push the system's total latency over the edge of detectability when before it was just below that threshold.

According to this, avg human reaction time is about 250ms: https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
That includes latency between the software drawing green in memory and the display actually showing it (varies dramatically depending on display technology), the brain processing the change and instructing a finger to tap/click, the finger actually touching the screen, the screen processing the input and making it available to the software layer and the software reading it and calculating the time passed.

When designing software (or websites) the typical guideline is to make sure that an action has a perceivable effect at most 100 ms later, i.e. everything in that range is perceived as instantaneous. But that's for visual perception.

For audio, the threshold appears to be much lower. Around 10 ms seems to be a good baseline based on some googling, but this stuck out to me:
"That said, even before latencies reach that (roughly approximate) 10-12 ms point, some musicians may be more sensitive than others, given the nature of the musical sounds they make. Players of percussive instruments like drummers may be bothered by even small amounts of latency that others might not notice, due to the sharp attacks of drums and percussion instruments. In the studio I’ve had drummers comment on latencies of only around 6-8 ms, which most performers are oblivious to. I figured out that this was in part due to the fact they they were also hearing their notes acoustically - getting a better headphone seal and cranking the level in the cans until it dominated helped, enabling them to subconsciously compensate for any subliminally-perceived lag they felt between feeling the stick hit the drum and hearing it in the monitor mix."
https://ask.audio/articles/monitoring-latency-how-low-can-you-go

Now that's in a context where you take an action and expect an acoustic response to it. I remember playing a virtual drum set in virtual reality once and it wasn't nearly as enjoyable as I expected simply due to the obvious audio latency.

I suspect when watching a video the tolerance is greater, especially when you have a frame rate of 24 FPS, i.e. about 41.7 ms go by without the image changing at all. Then again whenever that first frame of a gunshot or explosion (anything that makes a sudden sound) appears is when the clock starts ticking.
I imagine for dialog the tolerance is greater since the exact moment when a sound should be produced is typically not easy to determine. I find lip sync issues most noticeable when someone starts or stops speaking, less so while someone continues to speak.

The numbers out there vary considerably.

"For television applications, the Advanced Television Systems Committee recommends that audio should lead video by no more than 15 milliseconds and audio should lag video by no more than 45 milliseconds. However, the ITU performed strictly controlled tests with expert viewers and found that the threshold for detectability is -125ms to +45ms. For film, acceptable lip sync is considered to be no more than 22 milliseconds in either direction."
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio-to-video_synchronization)

It's also important to note that standards for video transmission need to be tighter than the limits of perception since the devices reproducing the audio and video add their own latency to the signal's.
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 7:24 PM Post #97,675 of 100,514

45longcolt

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VU Meters...Some thing with VU Meters.

ORT


Soooooooo...
6p4o0w.jpg



"SIGH"...

ORT
Funny, he doesn't look vu-ish...
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 8:23 PM Post #97,679 of 100,514

cgb3

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Given the heat we've had and the pounding my front lawn has taken because of it (westward facing), calling it a weed garden would be generous. :unamused:
I'm always curious. Why do people who choose to live in a desert expect green things growing outside their window?

2nd question. Why do we (as a society) allow people to live in a desert? Plunder the aquifer, divert water from rivers hundreds of miles away, to accommodate their lifestyle.

Plenty of green land east of the Mississippi.

Build a nuke plant (there's great small plants available now), and desalinate the ocean to support your unnatural lifestyle.
 
Aug 6, 2022 at 8:29 PM Post #97,680 of 100,514

cgb3

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Why do people keep erecting statues of @bcowen...? He's starting to gain mythological status! Schiit might have to name a product for him. Maybe that's the weird/crazy one Jason has been alluding to? Well at least this time, this statue looks just like him...! :grinning:
"Why do people keep erecting statues of bcown?"

Who else has a paper mache penis?
 

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