Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jun 11, 2021 at 11:46 AM Post #78,106 of 78,333

wout31

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Science is not opinion. Science is observation, and not only that it is observation that can be replicated multiple times by multiple people regardless of their opinions (or beliefs.) Doing something once and "leaving something out" is not science, it is experimentation.

Saying science is just an opinion is a common tactic used by those who wish to denigrate science. I am not saying that is what you are doing, only that what you said sounds like that.
Agree, still the conclusions can be totally wrong because nothing and nobody is perfect so there can always be anomalies. Viewpoints change over time with new discovered information. In that sense it is just a well balanced conclusion at a certain point in time, based on the knowledge at that time. New times, new knowledge, different outcome.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 11:50 AM Post #78,107 of 78,333

Ableza

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Agree, still the conclusions can be totally wrong because nothing and nobody is perfect so there can always be anomalies. Viewpoints change over time with new discovered information. In that sense it is just a well balanced conclusion at a certain point in time, based on the knowledge at that time. New times, new knowledge, different outcome.
Indeed, and that also is part of science. It is an evolving thing.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 11:52 AM Post #78,108 of 78,333

Pondoro

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I've done many blind testing sessions as well as simple focus group sessions on many parts of audio systems. The results are almost always as you indicate: statistically insignificant.

If you google it you can find a DBX test done using higher-end interconnects VS wire coat hangers. Same results.
I Googled the coat hanger experiment, as I expected it was a great read. Now I’m getting ads for coat hangers!
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Post #78,109 of 78,333

Ableza

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I Googled the coat hanger experiment, as I expected it was a great read. Now I’m getting ads for coat hangers!
Make sure you buy the oxygen-free ones. :ksc75smile:
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 12:22 PM Post #78,110 of 78,333

Pondoro

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On a serious note in the last two days I read of two studies - one showed that balanced input cables are detectable versus RCA cables and another showed that high end speaker cables are not detectable versus coat hangers. I believed both of the studies. But I was predisposed to believe both of them. I also heard about a study that showed Monster Cables are undetectable "to the general population" and I am predisposed to believe that. I heard that "some golden ears" detected Monster Cables 100% of the time. I was predisposed to disbelieve that so I immediately wondered if they had enough data. I'm confessing my humanity here.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 12:56 PM Post #78,111 of 78,333

Dana Reed

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Make sure you buy the oxygen-free ones. :ksc75smile:
I tried the coat hanger experiment myself, and I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with my amp. I get like no sound at all
1623430559810.png
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Post #78,113 of 78,333

inmytaxi

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Hey, thanks for the feedback. Truly appreciated. :relaxed:

A Freya+ is next on my list. So, I was a little concerned about stories of excessive heat. But, from your description, the Freya+ sounds like it ranges in temperature fairly close to my Lyr 2. No issues with it, even after 8 hours of use at work. (Each day, not per week)...! :grin:

Also, very good to hear that you're enjoying the sound of your new preamp. I like "open, clear, extended, and alive". That should match well with the Aragon amp I'm using.
Lyr 2 is smaller and hotter, so it'll heat up quick. Freya will take it's time but eventually the beast will give off a slight heat shadow. It's gorgeous by the way. I understand why he put the tubes inside but if you plan on messing around alot tube protectors might be a good idea. NOS tubes go for $100+ and the price is going up, so you may want to grab a pair or two (a lot of people recommend just using the driver tubes, or is it the buffer tubes?) if you find a good deal in your travels.

Maybe @Jason Stoddard can tell us why he thinks tubes are in such apparent scarcity. Is it real or is it Railroad Trust, Oil Trust, OPEC type shennagins.

The great thing about this Freya is that you get two preamps in one. The solid state side is also blowing my mind. Keep in mind this is my first proper preamplifier. In the past I have used the preout from Lyr 2 or an integrated amplifier I have on hand. I think the Lyr 2 preout is just the tubes?
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 2:15 PM Post #78,117 of 78,333

Paladin79

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On a serious note in the last two days I read of two studies - one showed that balanced input cables are detectable versus RCA cables and another showed that high end speaker cables are not detectable versus coat hangers. I believed both of the studies. But I was predisposed to believe both of them. I also heard about a study that showed Monster Cables are undetectable "to the general population" and I am predisposed to believe that. I heard that "some golden ears" detected Monster Cables 100% of the time. I was predisposed to disbelieve that so I immediately wondered if they had enough data. I'm confessing my humanity here.
I have done plenty of experiments in a local engineering lab and most often we use a group of fifty people for blind tests, and average the results. I have only come across one person who has the ears to detect between specific wire types, and I have access to most anything made. She was also able to pick the same order of DACs that a group of fifty picked, 20 DACs were used.

Jason received some of the same tubes I used in blind tests and first those went to @bcowen, he was able to name five of eight tubes as best I recall. Can many people do that? Doubtful. The tubes were well concealed in PVC. I was limited to using the same shape 6sn7's but for over a year we have been collecting most equivalents known to man just to see what might happen. All the people setting up the studies are men of science, the listeners might be musicians, audio engineers, or students with far better hearing than us older folks. :ksc75smile:

I have been exposed to claims that could never be proven. One gentleman said he could hear a difference in two cables I made from the same wire and connectors. Naturally he could not lol. But he did not run from the challenge as some have. I have not been able to tell much difference in speaker cables but one day I may play around with those just to see what happens.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 2:17 PM Post #78,118 of 78,333

Ripper2860

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I missed the last Shittr meet, was there any info released on the Folkvangr?


IIRC -- Headed to production. Tuned by ear. No measurements yet. Very hot!
 
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Jun 11, 2021 at 2:37 PM Post #78,119 of 78,333

S0undJunk1e

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Regarding audio blind tests and statistical analysis …

Back 100 years ago ( =) ) just after Monster started selling expensive ( relatively ) interconnects I read a study in an audio engineering periodical that did a thorough double blind A/B/X test with a relatively large sample size ( ~100? ). The statistical analysis showed that within the margin of error that most people could not tell the difference. But one person was able to select the Monster cable 100% of the time and three others were able to select the Monster cable higher than 95% of the time. There are “golden” ears out there that can hear things most people can’t.

At about the same time a read a study in an audio mag were they did I a study that allowed the test subject to connect and listen to two different interconnects, blue and green. There was a 80+ % favour for the blue cable. The interconnects used the same wire and connectors with only different coloured jackets. Did the jacket colour make a sonic difference? Was a connector joint on the green cable not as good? Or do most people preferred blue over green? The ( unfounded ) statistical conclusions that this article came to was that interconnects do not make a difference.

Given the current times we should all be wary of what we are being told. Try to understand what we are really looking at and come to our own conclusion.
Regarding audio blind tests and statistical analysis …

Back 100 years ago ( =) ) just after Monster started selling expensive ( relatively ) interconnects I read a study in an audio engineering periodical that did a thorough double blind A/B/X test with a relatively large sample size ( ~100? ). The statistical analysis showed that within the margin of error that most people could not tell the difference. But one person was able to select the Monster cable 100% of the time and three others were able to select the Monster cable higher than 95% of the time. There are “golden” ears out there that can hear things most people can’t.

At about the same time a read a study in an audio mag were they did I a study that allowed the test subject to connect and listen to two different interconnects, blue and green. There was a 80+ % favour for the blue cable. The interconnects used the same wire and connectors with only different coloured jackets. Did the jacket colour make a sonic difference? Was a connector joint on the green cable not as good? Or do most people preferred blue over green? The ( unfounded ) statistical conclusions that this article came to was that interconnects do not make a difference.

Given the current times we should all be wary of what we are being told. Try to understand what we are really looking at and come to our own conclusion.
I have a problem with any blind test that happens on equipment that is not yours. Or with records or music files that you do not normally listen to. How are you going to have any chance of discerning an incredibly subtle difference (like a connector) if everything else involved isn't familiar? I wouldn't even be able to tell the difference of nearly anything audio related if I were blind testing with music or equipment I wasn't familiar with.

Somebody somewhere was trying to convince everybody that you can't hear a difference between 128kbps and 24/192 and there was this online test you take to prove it. Well of course you can't. You don't know the song, your using a web browser as a player, who knows where the files came from, the recordings themselves were terrible, and it's all probably compressed in one way or another anyway because of the software. What a stupid test.
 

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