Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Feb 28, 2021 at 10:34 PM Post #72,466 of 80,127

schneller

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Wanting to free up a bit of space in my audio rack, a while ago I had set aside my Vahalla 2 (and along with it my HD800). I have a Bifrost 2 that I use with both an old Jot and Lyr 3 in the bedroom. It's been my go to headphone setup for a couple of years now. My Yggdrasil is my workhorse for my two-channel system and I have never really used it at all for headphones. Well, today, on a whim -- and because I had a work project for which I wanted on headphones to help block out noise around the house -- I pulled out the Vahalla 2 and the HD 800s and hooked them up to the SE output on my Yggdrasil.

And, holy mackerel, what have I been missing? My jaw just dropped. This is by far the best sound and soundstage the HD 800 phones have ever had. (Yggy has both the A2 and Unison upgrades.) I think Aleza is right: there's precious little difference between balanced and SE output, at least to my ears. Now, I'm debating which kidney to sell so I can get a Yggdrasil for the bedroom setup. Ha!

Question for the group -- has anyone used Jotenheim 2 with Yggdrasil?

(Hope things continue to stabilize in TX, Jason.)

How about a BF2 versus Yiggy comparison? SE only. Two channel speaker setup.
 
Feb 28, 2021 at 11:02 PM Post #72,467 of 80,127

johnjen

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I still have problems pushing the "buy" button on a Yiggy A2 because of the "known fact" that it is designed to work best from its XLR balanced outputs. If this has been said once, it has been said a thousand times. My NAIM Supernait 3 amp has RCA and DIN inputs only.

snip
I understand the desire to 'get the best' from any device purchase.
And if such a technical choice difference as se. vs bal. is a deal breaker then your choices are clear, right from the start.

However the Jggy does offer you both options, and for your system the potential increase in SQ is not simply limited to one or the other (se vs bal).

Are there are advantages to bal?
Yes but they are relatively minor in comparison to the use, or not, of this dac, at least in my experience and opinion.
IOW I have found that the increase in SQ is much greater than merely the choice between the se. vs bal. dichotomy.

And if you should get a pre-amp or power amp with bal. inputs down the road, you are already set to discover if the internet mantra which has been "repeated 1000 times buy 1000 users on multiple forums" is actually true or not and how much of a change there truly is in the first place.

And in the mean time, you can enjoy the step up in SQ that the Jggy does offer, regardless of if se. or bal. is being used.
Think of it as a upgrade in the making with future potentiality just waiting to be realized…

Just say'n is all.

JJ
 
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Feb 28, 2021 at 11:21 PM Post #72,468 of 80,127

tincanear

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My Gumby isn't a Gumby yet. Don't kill it before I get the chance...! :xf_eek:
best to get in the modification queue at Schiit if you have already not signed up, and add Unison while its there. If it gets discontinued, they are likely to at least complete the upgrades in the pipeline. If you wait for a discontinuation notice to sign up, it may be too late. Presumably, you have another DAC (or two) that will allow your system to at least make sounds while the Gungnir D/S is being upgraded.
 
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Feb 28, 2021 at 11:40 PM Post #72,469 of 80,127

JohnnyOps

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Oh. Man. Sure, a “better” Gumby refresh would be fine... but it’s so darn good already. I have the BF2, and good old Gumby beats it pants down. Maybe people consider Yggdrasil, but it cost so much more I don’t know how many who are considering Yggy can actually pay for it. Fine to refresh if there’s something better to do with it... but it’s SO good.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 12:19 AM Post #72,470 of 80,127

Randolf711

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Wouldn’t balanced outs on any device inherently sound better than SE? I’m only guessing but I would imagine 95% of audio products sound better balanced.

The Yggy A2 sounds awesome with SE out. I, however, got a XLR switcher so I can utilize balanced outs.

And since everyone is making suggestions for Jason, I would love for the Urd to shoot rainbows out of my speakers. But they better measure really well on the RGB scale.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 2:08 AM Post #72,471 of 80,127

EricDH

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I still have problems pushing the "buy" button on a Yiggy A2 because of the "known fact" that it is designed to work best from its XLR balanced outputs. If this has been said once, it has been said a thousand times. My NAIM Supernait 3 amp has RCA and DIN inputs only.

Is it so much to ask for Schiit to make a "super duper", more compact version of Yiggy but with RCA/SE outputs only? Think of a $1700 Chord Qutest competitor:
  • A Yiggy A2+ (maybe even a better DAC implementation than Yiggy)
  • RCA/SE outputs only (the best SE output Schiit can muster)
  • Smaller form factor: somewhere between BF2 and Gungnir in size. Maybe the height of Yiggy but the width of Bifrost?
  • Unison and Autonomy
  • Silver and Black case options
  • $1700-$1800 USD
Then:
  • Get rid of Yiggy GS.
  • Get rid of Gungnir Multibit? I mean the thing still is NOT EVEN available in black like everything else! It has felt like an end-of-life product for a while!

Well, really balanced designed equipment (all other things equal), sound better when connected balanced to again truly balanced equipment (which you Naim apparently is not). But these are minor differences, a little bit wider soundstage, these sort of things. It only means that people with balanced equipment can get that last 0.2% out of it. So yeah, if all of your kit is balanced, it makes sense, but don't overestimate the difference. Yggy connected SE to your Naim will do wonders to your listening experience.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 2:19 AM Post #72,472 of 80,127

Zojokkeli

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Since people are just wishing for things here’s mine:
I want an integrated amp.
Essentially, a good, dead quiet preamp
Schiit’s fancy relay volume control
Built-in multibit dac with unison usb, coax and optical inputs
Aegir power
Dual preamp outputs for my subs AND if I want to use a different amp
All single-ended
All in one box.
I would stretch to $2k for this.

I would totally buy this. We're moving to our own house next month, and at some point I'll start making upgrades to my two channel system. At the moment I've been thinking about Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 or NAD M10 as an upgrade for my Powernode 2.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 8:51 AM Post #72,474 of 80,127

Ableza

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Wouldn’t balanced outs on any device inherently sound better than SE? I’m only guessing but I would imagine 95% of audio products sound better balanced.

The Yggy A2 sounds awesome with SE out. I, however, got a XLR switcher so I can utilize balanced outs.

And since everyone is making suggestions for Jason, I would love for the Urd to shoot rainbows out of my speakers. But they better measure really well on the RGB scale.
Inherently? No. The signal is the same. It is at a higher level relative to SE which some people mistake for "better," but the only inherent advantage is noise reduction with very long or very noisy cable runs (such as in a professional or live sound use case.)
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 9:51 AM Post #72,475 of 80,127

Ripper2860

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'm sure folks would line-up and say 'if it ain't broke' about original BF, Modi, etc. Hell - even the Model T car. Where would we be if that was the only time folks introduced new products with new advancements? Besides, what makes one think Gungnir 2 would not be better? It's the circle of life. IIRC, it was stated before that Schiit will keep Yggy in play as long as they can to protect the investment made by folks that bought Yggy. AKAIK, no such thing has been stated about Gungnir.

A Gungnir 2 release ain't just about whether it's broke -- sales plays a big factor. I suspect that many, many folks that were contemplating Gungnir in the past are buying BF2 or passing over Gungnir and going to Yggy. If I had to guess (and it is a guess), Gungnir sales are lackluster in comparison to the other 2 and nowhere near what it used to be. I would much rather there be a new Gungnir than having it dropped from the line-up leaving nothing between BF2 and Yggy.

Anyhow -- what I have to say about it doesn't matter. I'm just speculating. The decision lies with Mike and Jason.
 
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Mar 1, 2021 at 9:56 AM Post #72,476 of 80,127

evanescent

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To generate the same magnitude of output, balanced generates two channels of opposite sign. This means that idiosyncratic noise in the output is reduced compared to one channel in single-ended. If the noise between channels is independent, statistically trained folk will be able to do the back of the envelope calculation of a noise reduction of 30%. That's not huge, but it is a benefit.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 9:57 AM Post #72,477 of 80,127

evanescent

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Inherently? No. The signal is the same. It is at a higher level relative to SE which some people mistake for "better," but the only inherent advantage is noise reduction with very long or very noisy cable runs (such as in a professional or live sound use case.)
To generate the same magnitude of output, balanced generates two channels of opposite sign. This means that idiosyncratic noise in the output is reduced compared to one channel in single-ended. If the noise between channels is independent, statistically trained folk will be able to do the back of the envelope calculation of a noise reduction of 30%. That's not huge, but it is a benefit.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 10:02 AM Post #72,478 of 80,127

Ableza

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To generate the same magnitude of output, balanced generates two channels of opposite sign. This means that idiosyncratic noise in the output is reduced compared to one channel in single-ended. If the noise between channels is independent, statistically trained folk will be able to do the back of the envelope calculation of a noise reduction of 30%. That's not huge, but it is a benefit.
Yes, just like I said. But it is only meaningful with long or noisy cable runs, and then only theoretically. There are many "improvements" on paper that do not translate to "improvements" to the ear. :)
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 10:29 AM Post #72,479 of 80,127

Randolf711

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Inherently? No. The signal is the same. It is at a higher level relative to SE which some people mistake for "better," but the only inherent advantage is noise reduction with very long or very noisy cable runs (such as in a professional or live sound use case.)
Thanks for the explanation and I am definitely not an expert. Honestly, I like to lean on companies like Schiit and go with how they would like their products to function. I’m not interested in A-Bing my life to death. Mike said unison sounds better so I went with that. I trust people to make these decisions for me because they have much more experience. This way I just focus on listening to music.
 
Mar 1, 2021 at 10:34 AM Post #72,480 of 80,127

GumbyDammit223

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The (1984) movie is a pretty confusing mess IF YOU HAVE READ THE BOOK (not recently),
and/but
BASICALLY INSCRUTABLE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK.

Fundamentally, way too much story to fit into a normal length movie.

Read the book first. (Just the first one of the trilogy.)
Then watch the movie ASAP afterwards.

Maybe the upcoming movie will be coherent. We're optimistic people here, right?
But....knowing that it was directed by David Lynch, then all is forgiven. A Lynchian film is meant to be enjoyed with your brain's orientation rotated off-axis.
 

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