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Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

Discussion in 'Jason Stoddard' started by jason stoddard, Jan 23, 2014.
  1. yonson
    Especially at the same price point!

    Magni3 was at the bottom of the list of Schiit I was expecting an upgrade from, it seems like it was just launched...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  2. Jason Stoddard
    You're very welcome!

    I may have said that when we introduced the Magni 3, we were getting near the limits of what we could do in that form factor. But we did make Magni 3+ better. And Heresy is better still (at least on the analyzer).

    But (sigh), we ARE getting near the end of what we can do. More power? You're gonna need a floor-wart sized wall-wart (that's about 3x the volume of the Magni). Or a switching supply and internal rail splitters, and then you take the chance of high-frequency noise crashing down into the audio band. Better distortion? On the discrete side, we need more loop gain. That means a new topology. That means more parts. That would probably break the budget, as it is already straining the price point. On the op-amp side, sure, there are parts that measure better, but they also cost more, which may also break the budget. Balanced? Forget it at this price point, and it doesn't even fit in the current chassis (it is too short).

    Heck, even little things get interesting in a real hurry. Someone said we should do a top-mounted volume pot like Hel on Magni. That would look cool, agreed. However, the aluminum top would have to go bye-bye. The Hel's top is stamped and painted for a reason--the well the knob sits in is press-formed, and would distort the aluminum grain. So there'd be no matching Magni and Modi (or other products) anymore.

    Thanks for letting me blather a bit, we do a whole lot of what-ifs trying to make stuff better, but a lot of times reality has the final call.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
  3. US Blues
    "People know we’ve been good at poking the sacred cows of audio." ~ J. Stoddard

    Sacred cows make the best hamburger. :hamburger:
     
  4. Jason Stoddard
    Even if they're your own.
     
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
  5. ev666il
    Amazing chapter.

    My heart wants a discrete design, but my eyes want the red and black color scheme. What’s a guy to do?

    No, wait—I’d already decided to go Bifrost 2/Jotunheim for my next upgrade. Thank the Norse gods I don’t have to make that decision!

    Red and black are my favorite colors, by the way. I love Schiit in black but a red and black stack? I could die for one.
     
  6. David Aldrich
    This x1000, and a matching Red/Black Bifrost 2 to make a proper RAAL stack. Peer pressure guys, let’s do this.
     
    tincanear, dieslemat, Rensek and 2 others like this.
  7. PioBeer
    Awesome job Jason. +1 on a comparison to the Atom... Can't wait.

    Also, I wonder if the modi 3 will get a red and black paint job?
     
  8. Jason Stoddard
    Two (not quite serious answers):

    1. Buy both, swap the boards, and send the other one back.*
    2. Keep bugging us, we've already done all sorts of stuff we said we wouldn't do, why not this?**

    *It's not like we'll notice...at least for a while. After that, expect an email from us asking "what the heck???"
    **Sigh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
  9. ev666il
    Not sure about the red, but Modi is now available in black.

    Also, a red/black Bifrost 2 would be amazing—but since I’ll be stacking it with a regular Jotunheim, I’d rather have red/black on the latter rather than the R version :D

    Ultimately, red/black makes everything better!
     
  10. Jason Stoddard
    I expect you'll have to settle for a black top, sorry.
     
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
    ev666il likes this.
  11. Roy G. Biv
    I'd break the "no big purchases without asking" promise to my wife if purple was an option :beerchug:
     
  12. Ableza
    OK, I'm probably being a fool for doing this but here goes. Simplified answers off the top of my head:

    1) Tighter tolerances from being part of an integrated circuit
    2) Lower gain = lower voltage = operating farther away from limits + lower heat generated
    3) Any time a gain stage is introduced the distortion values are also amplified along with the signals
    4) Feedback will change since it is proportional to voltage gain and you don't want it going positive or ringing
    5) Other than what? And what measurements should we use as a baseline? (cop-out answer, sorry)
    6) Basically, feed-forward is a form of "error control" or distortion reduction and is different from feedback in that it imposes positive control to a desired state all the time while feedback requires output that deviates from a desired state (an error.) And holy sschiit man, a formula? I got my BS in the 70's how can I remember formula that I don't use all the time?
    7) No friggin idea. That's why god made Google. :)
    8) Hundreds of variables in play here, but basically anything and everything that surrounds the opamp (including how well the socket is soldered to the PCB) will affect measured system performance and it may or may not approach listed specs depending on the implementation.
    9) Connections can introduce orders of magnitude differences when taking measurements or when using a system, and this can be true for all measurable values - and it's often unpredictable.
    10) There are hundreds of possible loudspeaker distortion factors, some audible and some not so audible. Very very good loudspeaker designs might offer THD on the order of 5% average 20-20K with 10% below 100Hz being common.
    11) Headphones tend to be better because the transducers and the signals involved are so much smaller but I'd still say around 1%. I've seen some published specs of 0.1% but I don't believe them.
    12) Transducer distortion is several orders of magnitude greater than amplifier distortion. 10% VS 0.01% or better
    13) A very good microphone has THD around 1% @ 1Khz
     
  13. rkw
    You might want to rephrase the product page, because it will cause confusion.

    Choose Magni 3+ for the ultimate expression of an affordable all-discrete current-feedback headphone amp. It’s now seriously a mini speaker amp, right down to the driver stage and Vbe multiplier.
     
  14. Jason Stoddard
    Fun story: we were getting all set to launch these products, and they sent Magni Heresy out for photos with a silver Modi. The resulting photos were, well, let's say they were ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING.

    So I go to Alex and say, "We need to get a black Modi 3 out ASAP to match with Heresy."

    Alex looks at me blankly and says, "We don't have any black Modi 3s."

    I just blinked. "None? When do they come back into stock?"

    "They've never been in stock," Alex said.

    "What?"

    "We never made any," Alex clarified.

    Now, we're like two weeks out from launch. I know that if we launch Heresy without a matching Modi (at least the top), we'd be eviscerated. Alex realizes this about the same time and goes pale. "I'll see how fast we can get them."

    The good news? We had a box of black tops on the shelf. So we were able to send one off for photos...and have them available to match Magni Heresy.

    BIG sigh of relief.
     
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
  15. Jason Stoddard
    Fixed!
     
    Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
    ev666il likes this.

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