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Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

Discussion in 'Jason Stoddard' started by jason stoddard, Jan 23, 2014.
  1. Roy G. Biv
    I agree with virtually everything you posted here. Bonus points for "out-Roon Roon" lol

    For me, if a service doesn't include integrating streaming with the media that I own, then the service isn't viable to me. We have Spotify at home because my wife likes it, but unless one's media is in MP3 then there isn't any meaningful integration.

    You used the term "curious luxury" which is exactly what I thought Roon was until I started using it. Kinda like what people initially thought of dishwashers. After 9 months of use I recognize its true value.

    I realize that, like dishwashers, one can live without Roon but I darn sure don't want to be without it. I find it hard to believe that Amazon, Apple, Tidal, Qobuz etc. will try to replicate the functionality of Roon and therefore Roon will continue to exist as a niche product. As such, it will live on with niche pricing.

    For those who got in before the price increase, rejoice. For those who didn't, sign up now before the next inevitable price increase and then... rejoice
    Ripper2860 likes this.
  2. Rensek
    I think you just need a Bifrost 2 for the phase and remote.
    S-S-MR and tincanear like this.
  3. Ripper2860
    And don't forget VU meters!! :D
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    Rensek, sam6550a, GearMe and 3 others like this.
  4. belgiangenius
    As a principle, I'm just opposed to monthly fees. After awhile, I always decide it's not worth it and cancel. I hate seeing recurring fees on my credit card bills.

    It's much easier for me to come to terms with lump sum payments. I paid $499 for the lifetime subscription. I would not pay $10 a month.
    grokit, Odin412, Ableza and 5 others like this.
  5. DougD
    May I interest you in my (pending Kickstarter) nuclear-powered automobile project??? No more monthly gasoline (petrol) bills.
    Tim van der Leeuw likes this.
  6. Balthazar B
    If you have been getting your hardcopy music from Amazon over the past several years, there's certainly a natural integration between streaming and that music you own. Probably won't be long before you'll be able to replicate your whole collection in FLAC format from AWS onto local media in the night while you sleep.

    Amazon, Apple, Spotify, and Google most certainly have it within their power to provide something that will look, waddle, and quack like Roon to most consumers. Sad to say, but i'm afraid Tidal and Qobuz as we know them might end up as road kill as soon as Amazon finishes its hegemony in the audio market -- and particularly if they replicate what they've already done with book publishing and media production in the music space. As the number one gateway to most consumers, they hold tremendous leverage over the manufacturers and distributors of goods and content. Remember when Hyman Roth said "We're bigger than U.S. Steel"? Welcome to Amazon. And Apple, Spotify, and Google are not exactly small fry either.

    Unfortunately, I still don't see -- as a practical matter -- what Roon gets us, since we've transitioned almost entirely to streamed music, though we have a garage full of CDs in boxes. And again, since our behemoth streaming providers for the most part don't play in Roon's sandbox. The combination of Roon and Qobuz could be compelling since each provides what the other is missing...but then I have little doubt Amazon et al. will very soon provide comparably complete functionality at a significantly lower cost of entry and overhead.
    grokit and Roy G. Biv like this.
  7. bobbmd
    @valiant66 in Brooklyn they have a Wegmans Grocery store in the Brooklyn Navy Yard now prices 50% less than any grocery store in the 5 boroughs it's the smallest Wegmans on the east coast and the largest grocery store in all of NYC do everything include cook cables
    valiant66 likes this.
  8. PioBeer
    Modi 3 vs R2R-11

    In my 2 channel set up, with Vandersteen 2C mains, an OG Saga with a tung Sol tube and a behringer Ep2500 pro-amp (with fan mod). The Modi 3 comes out the clear winner (listened to some Mark Knofler and Arcade Fire) It is more resolving in the high end (what I was hoping for) a touch more sub bass and the most surprising - better sound stage depth. The holographic feel is really fantastic! This really is a tremendous bang for the buck, folks.

    I will likely upgrade my speakers before I go up the line, but this is gonna work just great for now.

    I am wondering if I should invest in a Vidar (before I get new speakers) to capitalize on even more Schiit synergy.

    End goal is Freya+, Aegir, bifrost 2 or Yggdrasil and Tekton DI. Tempting to try and squeak out more of the Vandys with a Vidar, but I should probably save up the $3300 it takes for the DIs. Decisions decisions
  9. tincanear
    the bandpass filters that would be necessary cause phase shifts, so the absolute phase switch loses some of its utility.
  10. Rensek

    I took a more holistic approach to system building. I just kept replacing what I thought was the weakest component next.

    If I were you, (I'm not) i'd wait and get a b stock Vidar, then get a better Schiit DAC. Modi Multibit, Bifrost Multibit ( available now in short supply), or a Bifrost 2 then move to Saving for the DIs

    Depends on the approach. I'm trying to buy gear that lasts years. In your case original Bifrost Multibit or Bifrost 4490 should both provide upgrades over Modi 3. Bifrost 4490 for sure does in my opinion ( haven't heard a Bifrost multibit) But if you bought right into a Bifrost 2 you'd probably have less, whatelseisoutthere-itis about dacs

    Your Vandersteens are no slouches. If you upgrade other gear you will really be able to hear what they can do.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    S-S-MR, grokit, FLTWS and 3 others like this.
  11. tincanear
    @PioBeer glad to hear that the D/S Modi 3 works to help balance out the 2C's. Depending on your final speaker choice, you might consider holding off on the Vidar (for some user's setups, they prefer dual Aegirs fed from a Freya S or Freya +). 'don't fix what aint broke' as they say...but such advice is seldom heeded by audiophiles :)

    Sultans of Swing, alchemy live...
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    S-S-MR, Tim van der Leeuw and thebmc like this.
  12. ev666il
    Re: Roon

    Appreciate the honesty and transparency of the announcement. Many companies would just make the move and not bother justifying it with their customers. It’s always good when a company respects their user base enough to communicate with them and explain the reasons for doing something differently going forward.

    It is worth noting that Audirvana also offers the opportunity to stream music and play local files. It doesn’t come with an EQ but if offers most other features found in Roon for a fraction of the price (and it accepts EQ plugins.) I honestly prefer its model where once you buy it, it is yours; if an update is out, you need to pay for it, but it’s your choice whether you want it.

    Re: Phase button on Bifrost 2

    I’ve never owned gear with this feature. What scenarios would I want to use it in? What would the benefit be?
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    liamo and Tim van der Leeuw like this.
  13. tincanear
    the Phase button inverts phase 180 degrees (same thing as reversing the leads on both channels at your speakers). For music originating from real instruments (not synthesized) one setting may sound very different (and less natural) than the other setting. I have tried inverting the phase via speaker lead reversal using the Sheffield Drum CD, and the reversed phase had significantly less punchy but more hollow sound versus normal phasing.

    Some recordings may have the absolute phase inverted as a result of the recording process (e.g. use of single-stage FET common-source or tube common cathode ??? style gain stages). The remote on Bifrost2 is particularly handy for changing the phase in the middle of a performance without leaving the optimal listening position.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    S-S-MR, grokit, motberg and 1 other person like this.
  14. wout31
    Swapping Vandersteen for Tekton that would be a very bad move IMHO. Maybe (if you must upgrade because of audio nervosa? age of the speakers?) upgrade to Vandersteen 2CE Signature.
    Look at the pulse and the step response of both speakers and the fase and impedance curve. The Vandersteen is a 200000% clear winner.
    Maybe go for Aegir instead of Vidar (your end game) and reveal all the class A (ish) sound. You will be surprised what your speakers can reveal.,
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  15. johnjen
    Maintaining 'proper' phase can be heard in the extension of the bass along with it's dynamic 'punch', or lack of same, at least that is where I notice the changes the most.
    CD's, like vinyl, are a mixed bag, with some being reverse polarized while the majority are not.

    Of those albums that are reversed, which is probably about 20-30% of them, only a subset of these will actually still have bass that reaches all the way to 20Hz (or less) so that use of the phase reversal switch can even be 'easily' noticed.
    And this also assumes your playback system is capable of delivering this kind of detail.

    And assuming that your playback system itself doesn't invert the signal, (from input to output, as some amps have their inputs and outputs 180º out of phase to each other) in which case the phase switch could be used most of the time to compensate.

    Lastly, the very bottom end isn't the only portion of the audio spectrum where 'proper' phase can be noticed since any percussive instrument (piano, cymbals, strings that are struck or plucked etc.) will have positive pressure on it's leading edge and not a negative one (lower pressure).
    The ear can detect these differences, and once you have been 'trained' to hear them they are apparent.
    These differences can be subtle, but can also be really obvious, like when you feel the big 6' drum hit, in your head and chest.

    S-S-MR, grokit and motberg like this.

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