[nedifer]

Both Saga+ and Saga S are, ahem, the weak links. This may be due to the extended blowout of original Sagas. So we'll see how it goes for a bit longer, and then decide what to do from there.

For those who haven't heard the Sagas, I absolutely love mine. I am listening to it now as i write this. I hope you don't kill the Saga+. I couldn't have afforded the Freya and still can't. But the Saga was just within reach and provides just enough bloom to add a wonderful dimensional character to our system.

It really put high end sound within reach for me and i am sure there are others out there who are in the same state.

Highly recommended - try it!

 

[valiant66]

There's an entire thread on the topic: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/small-cd-transport.593498/

Thanks for the link.

It dates back to 2012; ironically not much has changed in the meantime.

As a result it's given me a good selection of used Gear to look to for.

Cheers!
.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

I don't see the point given the JBL Nano Patch+. Think that relay attenuation and remote control are important features that would differentiate it from the cheaper passive options like the JBL and are important for living room speaker systems. To cut down on costs, could even reuse the Freya S enclosure, but just rejigger it a bit to lose the SE ins and add another set of XLR out. Then it would match the aesthetics of the higher end DACs as well. Would also give you room to isolate the circuitry for the remote from the input/outputs. Could call it Freya P. Thought the target was $200 range?

A few problems with this: in a Freya S chassis, a passive-only preamp is still going to be $499 or so. And Freya S already has passive relay attenuation at $599 (plus gain). That chassis is not cheap to make. And I don’t see the point of removing the gain stage if it only saves about $100. The fact that the gain stage is there isn’t affecting the passive performance.

Here are your real options for a cheap balanced preamp, based on educated guesses about costs:

1. Saga sized, maybe $399 with a feature set similar to Saga, but balanced.
2. Smaller than Saga in a cheaper chassis (that does not exist), with a motorized pot rather than relays, maybe $249. No way no how at $199. Maybe totally passive at $199 with no gain, but that’s still a pot. A motorized pot isn’t cheap, and relays + a motorized pot is super not cheap.
3. Smaller than Saga in a cheaper chassis with just a pot and a switch for 2 inputs and no remote, $99.

None of this is on the books, so we can keep talking about it, but those are the constraints if you want a preamp with good parts, made in the USA.

 

[valiant66]

Subs,

You could try 2 Subs located next to the speaker stands. I get the tight lower mid, upper lows (cross over area) I normally hear in good full range but better bass extension of the sub and the quicker, smoother, tighter mid and lower mid of the smaller bass/mid driver. For me, most full range 3 ways cross over too high past the point the bass driver sounding good. A full range that had the bass of my set up was considerably more expensive and out of my budget as well. I have Paradigm Studio 20s and a pair of Definitive Technology’s Pro Subs 10s and very happy with the set up. Pro Subs 12s would have been better but out of my budget. Budget 15” Subs were way too sloppy.

The Totem Mani-2s use a 2-way crossover, which I think contributes to their sound. Their "secret sauce", if you will, is that each speaker has two bass drivers, back to back.
.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

PLUS: could there be some kinds of NAFTA-esk, aggregatted-shipment from Los Angeles to Toronto (or Esterhazy [my mum was born in the Potash capital of Canada])? Every 2-4 weeks(?), Schiit's boss-shipper sends a monster crate to us. We get a trusted Canadian broker to forward the individual orders to my fellow, aurally-starved Cannucks. Would a Canadian distributor allow us to get a break on the Harmonized Sales Tax (aka - GST)? Or reduce the amount of 'brokerage fees' we get hosed?!
MINUS: Would the Canadian-Schiit-Show mirror all the stock found at the California store? Schiit's current EU distributor has a selection of stock, no? We're a tiny market... a bunch of Canoe-Heads hugging the US/Canadian border -- yeah, I know.
INTERESTING: I'm really lucky to be just North of the Border. When I track a Schiit-Shipment, I can see it go from Los Angeles... to Dallas... to somewhereville Louisianna... to Brampton... to me.


Heh heh.

Sigh....

Cool. When you find a Canadian distributor that doesn’t want to mark up US prices 150%, send them our way so we can talk to them. The reality is that nobody has stepped forward and has been willing to sell at a rational markup. If such a distributor exists, I’d be happy to meet them.

 

[dmckean44]

The other sad thing about the preamp Thunderdome results: I now know why people get caught up in this insane high-end thing--you know, car-priced DACs, MacBook-priced phono preamps, etc...because as soon as it was clear that a $900 preamp was cleaning the clocks of stuff $300-600, I thought, "Schiit, maybe I should do an even crazier preamp, maybe Yggy-sized, maybe near $2000." And then I realized there was very little I could do to improve Freya+, other than making it bigger and fancier. it already had tubes and relay attenuation and differential buffers and microprocessor oversight and two transformers and and and...and I remembered that interview where someone asked me, "What makes a preamp expensive?" and I had to answer, "No friggin idea."

TL;DR: I thought briefly about doing a more expensive preamp, then came to my senses. No, there will NOT be a preamp above Freya+.

Well, if you do end up doing a Freya++, I think HT bypass and an effects loop for Loki would be a good place to start. Those are the only convenience features that would make me consider switching away from my Saga 1.

 

[valiant66]

Thanks for this recommendation. I never thought I would be a fan of cello suites (I'm a rock and roll guy originally), but found out about the Bach Cello suites from an old NPR story about a great day in music history when Casals was recording the Bach suites at Abbey Road on the same day when Robert Johnson was recording his influential blues tracks (and fueling the whole crossroads theory).

So I started with the Casals recordings. I was pleasantly suprised by the Yo-Yo-Ma recordings. I remember making fun of him back in my mindless rock-n-roll days, but now his version of Bach's Cello Suite 1 is one of my test tracks. It sounds especially good on a multi-bit DAC (bifrost multibit) through a tube amp (Vali-2) into nice headphones.

So yeah, someone taught this phillistine to appreciate cello suites Thanks to your recomendation, I've now ordered a copy of the Fournier recordings.

EDIT: kill the nicknames

I believe every generation will have "their" performer of the Bach Cello Suites. Mine is Yo-Yo Ma.

I have a number of versions by other performers. The older versions seem too staid for me. The newer versions too frenetic. Yo-Yo hits the perfect pace. For me. And yes, his version makes great test tracks: but f that - they make great music.
.

 

[rkw]

...

@valiant66's post wins.

 

[MtnMan307]

I have the Lyr 3 and Jotunheim, so I have to think the Bifrost 2 would be the perfect DAC to put under them. RMAF 2019 will be my second one as a Colorado resident. I will have to hear the Bifrost 2 and Asgard 3.

 

[MtnMan307]

Although I did recently buy a 2010 Tacoma for the mountains and what not. That leaves a lot less money for audio purchases lol.

 

[Karister]

Someone has real photos of new Schiit stack in comparison to old one? I have Bifrost 4490 + Asgard 2 + Loki Mini and I wonder if new Bifrost and Asgard finish is more like old Bifrost/Asgard or Loki Mini. Shape-wise they are more similar to Loki.

 

[tafens]

Maybe but I never found fatigue as simple as darker or not, though darker does often help. Never really used Sabre dacs much. Usually had burr-browns.

Never had fatigue with DS Modi2U although I did with other DS DACs (e.g. NuForce, but I think there is a sabre in there).

But multibit, it’s just.. better. More “musical”, more enjoyable, in all regards.

 

[ScubaMan2017]

The only thing I can add is the MrSpeakers Ether Flow C + Mjolnir 2 is a great combo.

(99% shooting-the-schiit Question) = (Valhalla 2) + (Asgard 2/3 base model) ~ (Mjolnir 2) ? That Ether Flow C looks mighty fine to me (I tried its rival, the LCD-XC and was impressed... and that was just powering it with a piddly Fulla 2).
Sincerely,
"Target On The Surface"

 

[ScubaMan2017]

Cool. When you find a Canadian distributor that doesn’t want to mark up US prices 150%, send them our way so we can talk to them. The reality is that nobody has stepped forward and has been willing to sell at a rational markup. If such a distributor exists, I’d be happy to meet them.

Heh heh. Hard copy, sir. I (really do) appreciate the frank clarification, eh.
...from your Canuck audio customers...

{{{quick edit: your 150%-markup quip is actually damn close to how much Schiit gear sells on kijijji, CAM, and amazon dot ca.... yeesh}}}}

 

[adydula]

Good Morning!

I am sitting here listening to my original Bifrost with Gen 5 USB upgrade but with a "small" twist!

Yesterday I got a surprise package from Schitt that had in it a "beta" Unison (tm) board in it for the Bifrost "1".

I was one of the "whiners" that complained that I wish we didnt have to wait for Jan 2020 for the Unison update for the original Bifrost.

Jason told me to contact them and see if they had any "beta" boards that I could try......I was a lucky guy and got the "last" one!

Big THANKS to Jason and Schitt.....I never have run into folks that care about their customers, their products and listen to them, good or bad like Schitt Audio.

I have about 5 hours of solid listening with it using the new Unison USB interface to a HP 27" AIO using Jriver MC 24 and Foobar 2000.
Both are setup for WASAPI. All my music is ripped to its various native bit depth.

I have had my Bifrost since July 2017. Its the only dac I use anymore, the others just sit around gathering dust...

Its a pretty easy install, remove screws, remove pcb from the internal case, unscrew the 2 hold down screws, be careful not to loose the "silver button"..
Remove the Gen 5 board and push in the Unison board. Then all things basically in reverse. Good snug fit in the sockets.

First power on, watch the "traveling" light show, then wham it stops on the USB light.

I dont use any exotic boutique USB cable, just the $20 one from Schitt, which IMO is very nicely made, and Blue Jeans interface cables.

I listened with several amps I have ( 9 in house at the moment), some DIY, some retail. The first amp was my Bottlehead Mainlne and then my Schitt Vahalla 2.

Headphones used were my Beyer T1. 2nd gen and Senn HD600's.

First impressions are a lasting one to me.

The first thing was what is going on with this setup...its was a immediate something is indeed very different. An audio "slap in the face".

Several of those adjectives come to mind..."Clear, Open, Clean, Transparent, Articulate, Quiet, and Holographic".

I have a number of "demo" cds collected from various sources that are very, very well recorded and mastered and used by several vendors to show off their
equipments attributes. I rolled thru them and was constantly hearing my "jaw" drop on the floor....how could a simple USB interface upgrade affect the sound I was
listening to....

One word to me "Mike Moffat" "Magic"...

I think he said "Use the USB!".....

Their is an uncanny quietness that allows for extreme articulation of "stuff" on the recording....thing that were abit clouded are now crisp and you can hear all the stuff, the noise in live demo
recording rooms, small noises that are there in the recordings, things that never really stood out before. Uncanny resolution via a new interface...and we are coming from Gen 5.

I thought Gen 5 was it, what more could one do, I guess Mike knows better, because to me this new Unison is a major reason to get the upgrade when it comes out or a new Bifrost 2.

One benefit from this new "clarity" is its like listening to your stuff all over again, it does indeed bring the pleasure of listening back ....and I like that.

The bad thing is your still medicore recodings will still sound mediocre.

I switched to the Vahalla 2 to make sure what I was hearing was not tied to that TOTL vacuum tube amp...so in the circuit went the Vahalla 2.
In the past the Vahalla 2 and my Senn HD600's is about as a perfect match one could have, especially at this price point. I could be very happy with this setup.

The experience was basically the same. EXCELLENT. "Musical"......the way I think music ought to sound..kind of like almost being there experience.

Up first was Emmy Lou Harris: Mark Knopfler, All the Roadrunning, Love and Happiness....wondeful wide open performance, holographic.
Followed by LeAnn Rimes, Sittin on Top of the World..you may not care for this type of music, but the recording here is superlative.....great for
demo and hearing the width and depth of the soundstage..clear, holographic again.

Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley..."What a Wonderful World" Absolutley amazing...Holographic....melt in your mouth good!

The entire spectrum bass to treble is all there good or bad depending on your source.

Ok for now...I could rant and rave on this one, buy one word here...is just buy it! I really think you will not be unhappy with thie new interface...

Here is a few pix:

Again many thanks to Jason and Schitt Audio for the beta board...I dont know if anything will change between now and Jan 2020 in the upgrade, but to me its perfect as is!

Alex