[Jason Stoddard]

Sadly the hardcore measurement extremists don't have ears. You know the only thing that matters when it comes to how good something sounds.

Oh and I hope that isn't taken as a knock against the Modi 3, because that is a damn fine DAC. At $99 it's a steal, could be endgame for some not interested in chasing the last 10% of pixie dust

Same here--not knocking the Modi 3, I use one almost every day, and I think it's absolutely fine. Especially for the price.

Honestly have to agree. For me Multibit dacs eliminated the low-level fatigue I always got with delta-sigma dacs. My ears finally truly relaxed after I got a multibit dac.

Yep, I hear you, but some people want to chase measurements, and that's fine too--and you have to acknowledge that for best measurements you're looking at a delta-sigma design. Mike is absolutely adamant about True Multibit, but I'm more agnostic. My experience is that True Multibit sounds better, but if you guys like delta-sigma, that's fine too. I think measurements are important but not everything, but if you think they're all-important, that's fine too. We can all get along...there's tons of great products out there, today more than ever.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

I might be wrong but I don’t think “cheap ass balanced” would really apply to a preamp.

But regardless, I was thinking the same thing, especially given that the preamp Thunderdome is still going.

However, this amounts to asking for a Freya S with fewer inputs, a smaller chassis, and fewer relay steps, so I’m skeptical that the price would be different enough from Freya S to justify its existence.

*By the way, if Jason doesn’t mind sharing, I’m sure we would all love to know how the preamp wars are going.

Preamp Thunderdome: yeah, time for an update. You probably noticed that we're in backorder on Freya+, so there's the clear winner. I mean, it's not even close. Freya S is also doing, well, pretty fine. Both Saga+ and Saga S are, ahem, the weak links. This may be due to the extended blowout of original Sagas. So we'll see how it goes for a bit longer, and then decide what to do from there. Bottom line: I'm totally blown away that the top-selling preamp is by far the most expensive. I would have never called that.

 

[Alexnova]

Preamp Thunderdome: yeah, time for an update. You probably noticed that we're in backorder on Freya+, so there's the clear winner. I mean, it's not even close. Freya S is also doing, well, pretty fine. Both Saga+ and Saga S are, ahem, the weak links. This may be due to the extended blowout of original Sagas. So we'll see how it goes for a bit longer, and then decide what to do from there. Bottom line: I'm totally blown away that the top-selling preamp is by far the most expensive. I would have never called that.

Hey Jason, not to be a pain in the ass, but if the Sagas were ever threatened to be discontinued would you make an announcement? I would like to get a Saga+ whenever I can get the funds together. I'm sure this is a long ways away, as you said you do big runs, but I might have to pounce sooner than I thought.

 

[Alexnova]

Honestly have to agree. For me Multibit dacs eliminated the low-level fatigue I always got with delta-sigma dacs. My ears finally truly relaxed after I got a multibit dac.

Yep I think that's more so do to the "darker" presentation of the Mulitbits from my experience. Some of the DS DACs, especially Sabre, have this sort of treble glare that can make things fatiguing.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Hey Jason, not to be a pain in the ass, but if the Sagas were ever threatened to be discontinued would you make an announcement? I would like to get a Saga+ whenever I can get the funds together. I'm sure this is a long ways away, as you said you do big runs, but I might have to pounce sooner than I thought.

You're very safe...we have tons of Sagas. I wouldn't worry about it.

Edit: maybe I should them on the Bifrost 2 page as a "remote volume option."

 

[Jason Stoddard]

The other sad thing about the preamp Thunderdome results: I now know why people get caught up in this insane high-end thing--you know, car-priced DACs, MacBook-priced phono preamps, etc...because as soon as it was clear that a $900 preamp was cleaning the clocks of stuff $300-600, I thought, "Schiit, maybe I should do an even crazier preamp, maybe Yggy-sized, maybe near $2000." And then I realized there was very little I could do to improve Freya+, other than making it bigger and fancier. it already had tubes and relay attenuation and differential buffers and microprocessor oversight and two transformers and and and...and I remembered that interview where someone asked me, "What makes a preamp expensive?" and I had to answer, "No friggin idea."

TL;DR: I thought briefly about doing a more expensive preamp, then came to my senses. No, there will NOT be a preamp above Freya+.

 

[Alexnova]

Consumers correlate higher prices to being better, right? Expectation bias all that. Seriously there are lots of people who just buy crap just cause of the higher price tag not realizing it may not be the best.

Hell take the preamps you guys offered before the Thunderdome. IMO the SYS was the best one, more transparent, "closer" to the source, etc.

But that just can't be at $49!!! /sarcasm

 

[kman1211]

Yep I think that's more so do to the "darker" presentation of the Mulitbits from my experience. Some of the DS DACs, especially Sabre, have this sort of treble glare that can make things fatiguing.

Maybe but I never found fatigue as simple as darker or not, though darker does often help. Never really used Sabre dacs much. Usually had burr-browns.

 

[TylersEclectic]

Preamp Thunderdome: yeah, time for an update. You probably noticed that we're in backorder on Freya+, so there's the clear winner. I mean, it's not even close. Freya S is also doing, well, pretty fine. Both Saga+ and Saga S are, ahem, the weak links. This may be due to the extended blowout of original Sagas. So we'll see how it goes for a bit longer, and then decide what to do from there. Bottom line: I'm totally blown away that the top-selling preamp is by far the most expensive. I would have never called that.

Sooo...about that Freya+ in black.... I really wanna give you my money lol... I was chatting with @Torq about the Jotunheim R also as that could be a very interesting bit of kit for our RAAL SR1As! Looking forward to more progress on that and your new gaming kits! I’m also very tempted for the new Bifrost...

 

[Balthazar B]

Preamp Thunderdome: yeah, time for an update. You probably noticed that we're in backorder on Freya+, so there's the clear winner. I mean, it's not even close. Freya S is also doing, well, pretty fine. Both Saga+ and Saga S are, ahem, the weak links. This may be due to the extended blowout of original Sagas. So we'll see how it goes for a bit longer, and then decide what to do from there. Bottom line: I'm totally blown away that the top-selling preamp is by far the most expensive. I would have never called that.

And when a black Freya+ becomes orderable, my index finger is just itching to click Add To Cart and then Checkout.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Consumers correlate higher prices to being better, right? Expectation bias all that. Seriously there are lots of people who just buy **** just cause of the higher price tag not realizing it may not be the best.

Hell take the preamps you guys offered before the Thunderdome. IMO the SYS was the best one, more transparent, "closer" to the source, etc.

But that just can't be at $49!!! /sarcasm

While we're at it, let's talk balanced passives. We keep getting asked for this. I have figured out how to do one, but it will have to have some tradeoffs--like, it won't have a 4-gang RK27 pot, it will have to have something from Alpha or even a 4-gang RK09. It also is gonna be about $100. That's JUST A PASSIVE, 2-input preamp. Nothing more. No relay attenuation. No remote control. Just a big Sys. Interesting or not?

 

[ashirin]

That arrived faster than expected! Too bad I have to leave for work right now

 

[Alexnova]

While we're at it, let's talk balanced passives. We keep getting asked for this. I have figured out how to do one, but it will have to have some tradeoffs--like, it won't have a 4-gang RK27 pot, it will have to have something from Alpha or even a 4-gang RK09. It also is gonna be about $100. That's JUST A PASSIVE, 2-input preamp. Nothing more. No relay attenuation. No remote control. Just a big Sys. Interesting or not?

Yup very interested in a product like that. That's awesome, would allow me to get rid of my crummy Focusrite Scarlett doing preamp duties

 

[Scott Kramer]

For the numbers guys, Bifrost actually measures better than Gungnir Multibit, despite the lower-spec parts. It appears to be a bit of an overblown problem, or THD isn't correlated to INL. But then again, hardcore measure-ers won't buy True Multibit anyway, because it won't perform at the same level as delta-sigma on the analyzer. If you want to chase numbers, there's Modi 3.

The coveted Do NOT Recommend from the ASMR Science Forum will no doubt be incoming ;D

 

[TylersEclectic]

While we're at it, let's talk balanced passives. We keep getting asked for this. I have figured out how to do one, but it will have to have some tradeoffs--like, it won't have a 4-gang RK27 pot, it will have to have something from Alpha or even a 4-gang RK09. It also is gonna be about $100. That's JUST A PASSIVE, 2-input preamp. Nothing more. No relay attenuation. No remote control. Just a big Sys. Interesting or not?

I would also be very interested in replacing my s#!ty passive preamp with a Schiity preamp