Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Apr 20, 2019 at 1:23 PM Post #45,961 of 145,640
In terms of the dbSPL output from a given speaker watts is watts. In terms of how the system might sound that is a completely different topic and cannot be answered base don amplifier power.

In the rare example of a no NFB SET powering a single driver speaker, can exhibit a measured several decibel increase at the speaker’s Fs, compared to that same speaker being driven by an amp with a high dampening factor.

The exception that proves the rule.
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 1:41 PM Post #45,962 of 145,640
In the rare example of a no NFB SET powering a single driver speaker, can exhibit a measured several decibel increase at the speaker’s Fs, compared to that same speaker being driven by an amp with a high dampening factor.

The exception that proves the rule.
"Several db increase at speaker Fs"? From using a different amplifier topology? I'd have to see that to believe it. Plus at Fs the output from a dynamic driver is negligible and completely non-linear so I am not sure it would matter.
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 2:30 PM Post #45,963 of 145,640
"Several db increase at speaker Fs"? From using a different amplifier topology? I'd have to see that to believe it. Plus at Fs the output from a dynamic driver is negligible and completely non-linear so I am not sure it would matter.

Please refer to Nelson Pass’s nearfield measurements of the many single drivers tested in a box.

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

The dotted lines are Voltage Source (highly electrically dampened) and solid lines are Current Source (low electrically dampened) with a parallel network to get closer to critical system dampening. Without the network, the response would be more exaggerated.
 
Last edited:
Apr 20, 2019 at 5:00 PM Post #45,964 of 145,640
Out of curiosity, because I read the 1 post of Aegir v Vidar, do any others of you have comparisons to make? I just wonder how great the difference is, if you are able to A/B, with level matching. I remember there used to be a guy who would pay you like 10 grand, if you could tell the difference between modern solid state amps, in a blind test. Tube amps are 1 thing, but solid state? I just wonder if the difference is discernible in a blind test.

@Porteroso ,

I venture to say that it is not unreasonable to expect to hear differences between amps employing different output topologies.
My experience: (as always, YMMV)

1) I bought a cheap Radio Shack SS amp (using BJT output) for breaking in single full range drivers while I was building cabinets for them. I found that this amp was horribly sibilant on most of the drivers! Put that same amp on a typical 2 way speaker, and it sounded OK; not great, but certainly listenable. With any of my other SS amps (e.g. Yamaha CR-1000 receiver or Sansui 4000 receiver or even cheap T-amp) there was no sibilance. I have no idea why...

2) I built a pair of Metronome style cabinets and put Fostex F120A drivers in them. The F120A is a well regarded Alnico magnet driver. On the Yamaha & Sansui receivers, there was plenty of bass, but the highs were missing & the mids were mediocre. I was about to give up on them when Martin King brought over a P-P tube amp that he found disappointing, as on all of his many speakers, the amp produced no bass. With his amp on the F120A drivers, the sound was full, rich & heavenly! And so I purchased a single ended pentode amp & built a dynakitparts.com ST-35 p-p tube amp. Both make the F120A drivers sing beautifully, although the 2.5 wpc SEP amp runs out of gas pretty quickly. Damping factor can't explain what's going on here. The only SS amp I have tried that sounds good with the F120A is Nelson Pass' Amp Camp Amp; 5 wpc of class A power.

3) Using the ST-35, SEP, and ACA amps on a transmission line design/build of mine using Fostex FF225wk drivers: I find that the ACA and SEP both sound quite good, but the ST-35 produces sort of loose, muddy bass. Don't know why...

IME, how a system sounds depends greatly on both amp topology and speaker performance. I have given up on trying to predict what will and will not work well.

Cheers, Jim
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 5:50 PM Post #45,965 of 145,640
Apr 20, 2019 at 7:12 PM Post #45,966 of 145,640
Please refer to Nelson Pass’s nearfield measurements of the many single drivers tested in a box.

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

The dotted lines are Voltage Source (highly electrically dampened) and solid lines are Current Source (low electrically dampened) with a parallel network to get closer to critical system dampening. Without the network, the response would be more exaggerated.
Interesting study, thanks for sharing. I will read it more carefully before I comment. Appreciate It.
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 7:40 PM Post #45,967 of 145,640
I'm not off the grid but I do have a 14.5 Kw solar array on my roof. When it's turning the power company's meter backwards, meaning I am on solar completely, the inverter power is totally silent in my several audio systems. Diesel generators on the other hand can be notoriously unstable. But you shouldn't have to worry about noise in your system unless you have a ground loop.

My system:


Wow nice! What’s that, 44 panels??!! I only have 18 (5.4 kW). Not off grid, in Maine we have net metering.
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 7:58 PM Post #45,968 of 145,640
Please refer to Nelson Pass’s nearfield measurements of the many single drivers tested in a box.

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

The dotted lines are Voltage Source (highly electrically dampened) and solid lines are Current Source (low electrically dampened) with a parallel network to get closer to critical system dampening. Without the network, the response would be more exaggerated.
Witout taking this thread too far off into Mr. Pass's left field, the article seems to show changed response curves not so much because of amplifier topology as because of the filter networks he created for each speaker he tested, which he may have made part of his amplifier output circuit but none the less he created a filter network for each speaker. Far be it from me to question Nelson Pass as he's forgotten more about amplifier circuit design than I ever knew, and it is entirely likely I am misinterpreting something in the paper, but I'll stand by my assertion that watts is watts when it comes to dynamic loudspeaker sound level outputs. For now. :)
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 7:59 PM Post #45,969 of 145,640
Wow nice! What’s that, 44 panels??!! I only have 18 (5.4 kW). Not off grid, in Maine we have net metering.
Thanks! 48 panels in the system. I needed a large array here where the air conditioning must run 24/7 for 8 months out of the year. :)
 
Apr 20, 2019 at 8:20 PM Post #45,970 of 145,640
Thanks! 48 panels in the system. I needed a large array here where the air conditioning must run 24/7 for 8 months out of the year. :)
If you live in very sunny parts of the world and needs AC. It should be mandatory by law to power it with your own solar panels. That’s how much sense it makes.
 
Apr 21, 2019 at 12:04 AM Post #45,971 of 145,640
99% Casual Question: when my spouse and I design our off-grid home, it'll be using a combination of solar (PV-panels), micro-wind turbine (not big enough to chop up people, perhaps a dumb seagull or two), a fossil-fuel-powered generator (I love that diesel rumble, my spouse grudgingly agrees it'll be necessary) and a battery bank (unless Tesla power walls come down in price, the Pb-acid will be our way to 'bottle lightning').
Will I have to deal with the hum?
Not sure of the precise state of them but flow batteries are interesting.
 
Apr 21, 2019 at 9:22 AM Post #45,972 of 145,640
Have not seen it posted on Schiit's website info / specs on Aegir, but does anyone know if the weight is comparable to Vidar at 22lbs.?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top