Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
post-14797990
Post #44,281 of 63,045

rlow

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
318
Reaction score
472
Location
Canada, 'eh
Joined
May 3, 2017
Location
Canada, 'eh
Posts
318
Likes
472
You were comparing 2 types of Gungnirs?
Yes I was at the time, both Multibit. I had an older/early version (with Gen 5 USB upgrade), and a newer one purchased new last year. They definitely sounded a bit different, but whether one was “better” than the other I think is somewhat subjective. There were aspects of each I liked.

Nice setup! Are those speakers on the stands Totems?
.
The are Dynaudio Special Fortys. Great, great sounding speakers, but not cheap! Luckily I found a great deal on a demo pair, otherwise pretty pricey for bookshelfs IMO.
 
     Share This Post       
post-14798346
Post #44,282 of 63,045
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,715
Reaction score
19,194
Location
Newhall, CA
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Location
Newhall, CA
Posts
2,715
Likes
19,194
Website
www.schiit.com
Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

1. The first article boards came in on Friday at 5PM. "First article" means they are test boards, not the full run, to make sure they are correct.
2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.
3. Their pick and place programming looks like it is slightly off, so we had some resistors in the wrong place. No idea why, sometimes Schiit just happens.
4. However, with the resistors swapped and some pots tacked in, they program and appear to run fine. We'll see how well they do over burn-in for a couple of days.
5. The parts the assembly house needs have been ordered for Monday/Tuesday.

So...will we get some Aegirs out in February? Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, they're coming soon.
 
Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
post-14798543
Post #44,283 of 63,045

sam6550a

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
800
Reaction score
1,351
Location
Rural South Georgia
Joined
May 23, 2016
Location
Rural South Georgia
Posts
800
Likes
1,351
Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

1. The first article boards came in on Friday at 5PM. "First article" means they are test boards, not the full run, to make sure they are correct.
2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.
3. Their pick and place programming looks like it is slightly off, so we had some resistors in the wrong place. No idea why, sometimes Schiit just happens.
4. However, with the resistors swapped and some pots tacked in, they program and appear to run fine. We'll see how well they do over burn-in for a couple of days.
5. The parts the assembly house needs have been ordered for Monday/Tuesday.

So...will we get some Aegirs out in February? Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, they're coming soon.
You cannot rush (near) perfection.
 
post-14798561
Post #44,284 of 63,045

valiant66

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
880
Reaction score
1,275
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts
880
Likes
1,275
The are Dynaudio Special Fortys. Great, great sounding speakers, but not cheap! Luckily I found a great deal on a demo pair, otherwise pretty pricey for bookshelfs IMO.
Ah, thanks. The drivers and finish are very remiscent of my Mani-2s. As a data point I just found the receipt for them the other day and I paid around CAD$4000.
.
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
post-14798574
Post #44,285 of 63,045

johnjen

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,097
Reaction score
2,276
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Posts
3,097
Likes
2,276
Thanks for that! I got the Russian 6N8S tubes from Schiit this morning and immediately plonked them in the Freya. I just loved the bass response, but the mids (voice like Leonard Cohen "You want it Darker" and Elvis Costello "North") are disappointing so far. The top end is not as smooth for things like big band (Gordon Goodwin). All this vs the Schiit TungSols. Of course, I have no idea how much time (any?) is on the 6Ns, so it may be that they mature.

I do have the LISSTs that I bought with the Freya but thought them a little too flat across the range. Your idea is fascinating, it had never occurred to me to mix varieties in matched pairs, seems so obvious now!

Thanks again,

Cheers
My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ
 
     Share This Post       
post-14798579
Post #44,286 of 63,045

JohnnyCanuck

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
798
Reaction score
1,589
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Posts
798
Likes
1,589
and allow 15 minutes for the tubes to warm up each time you turn your amp on before doing any critical listening.

JC
 
post-14798656
Post #44,287 of 63,045

FrivolsListener

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
909
Reaction score
1,099
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Posts
909
Likes
1,099
Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.
I hope that you, er, pot those pots so that they don't move in shipping or other things that could vibrate them!
 
     Share This Post       
post-14798693
Post #44,288 of 63,045

rkw

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Messages
2,082
Reaction score
1,994
Location
San Francisco
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Location
San Francisco
Posts
2,082
Likes
1,994
Schiit Unison USB is a USB receiver card for Schiit DACs that is claimed to improve on previous hardware for connecting the DAC to a digital source. The reason this is useful is that USB, S/PDIF coax, and AES are electrical connections that can carry electrical noise into the delicate innards of the DAC. Experience shows that earlier, off-the-shelf USB receiver parts are less good at isolating the DAC from that noise than S/PDIF or AES, not just for Schiit DACs but also for many others. Schiit's Gen 5 USB addressed the issue in part, but arguably Gen 5 USB is still not as good as AES from a good source. But Unison USB might actually bridge the gap or even supplant S/PDIF and AES, at least to judge from the reports of beta testers. Note that all of the USB cards we are talking about here work with the same USB Audio Class 2 protocol, the differences are in how the electrical signals are managed to minimize noise and timing issues on the synchronous connection between the USB card and the DAC circuitry.
While searching for the Unison beta tester reports, I discovered that there is an audio company named Unison, as well as products in the pro audio world.
Schiit might want to dig around their Norse encyclopedia for another name.
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
post-14798700
Post #44,289 of 63,045

Robert Padgett

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
867
Reaction score
1,452
Location
Charlotte North Carolina USA
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Location
Charlotte North Carolina USA
Posts
867
Likes
1,452
Age
63
Website
www.facebook.com
My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ
JJ- about four months ago, I hear my first tube headphone amplifier, with a good set of headphones.
I got bitten by the bug.
Having a zero reference point, the most remarkable difference I have experienced is the "settling in" or "breaking in" of the different tubes over time. Obviously the stock tube, and two "new production" tubes have been coming into song. I have purchased some rather inexpensive used (not-NOS but "test Good") which have been remarkable in sound quality.
I rotate ("roll") them regularly, each getting several hours on them each time.

Hey, it has been a fun adventure, and certainly less expensive that a day at Disney World...:astonished:

and allow 15 minutes for the tubes to warm up each time you turn your amp on before doing any critical listening.

JC
I turn the tubes on, and let them warm up, and have noted improvement into the listening session-- or my ears adjust and they apply the 'mellow' filter.:ksc75smile::ksc75smile:
 
post-14798737
Post #44,290 of 63,045

mp29k

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
164
Reaction score
222
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Posts
164
Likes
222
My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ
I like to let mine warm up for about an hour before listening. Currently: temple of the dog > Audio-Technica AT7V > Audio-Technica ATLP120 > Lounge Audio LCR mk3 > Musical Paradise MP301 Mk3 deluxe [d: General Electric 5693 “red hots” p: electro harmonix 6550EH] > Tekton design Lore.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: the finisher
post-14798759
Post #44,291 of 63,045

the finisher

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
1,145
Reaction score
2,349
Location
Nearfield, MN
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Location
Nearfield, MN
Posts
1,145
Likes
2,349
I like to let mine warm up for about an hour before listening. Currently: temple of the dog > Audio-Technica AT7V > Audio-Technica ATLP120 > Lounge Audio LCR mk3 > Musical Paradise MP301 Mk3 deluxe [d: General Electric 5693 “red hots” p: electro harmonix 6550EH] > Tekton design Lore.
I warm most everything up for a half hour to an hour before I listen.

And some things I never turn off, ie..Yggy and my Jotunheim

even the maker of my solid-state integrated amp Anthem, recommends in the owner's manual you warm it up for a half an hour before listening.

I warm up my Lyr2 for around an hour mostly not for the tubes but for the entire amplifier to get toasty.

I do believe it sounds better this way. The magic doesn't really happen till it's very warm to the touch. :L3000:
 
post-14798789
Post #44,292 of 63,045

mp29k

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
164
Reaction score
222
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Posts
164
Likes
222
I was curious about the LISSTs and found a used quad that I decided to try out. That’s what I was up to when I took that pic actually.

The quad of LISST I found had nice tonality and density, but lost a lot of that tube openness and spaciousness and soundstaging. So I decided to try out a pair in each of the stages along with a set of tubes. By swapping back and forth I was able to determine that you can retain a lot of the openness/spaciousness by having good tubes in the left side output stage, but still gain a lot of the tonal benefits from the LISST in the right side gain stage. This is my favourite sounding tube setup for Freya so far.

Based on that, as far as putting different pairs in Freya, you may want to try tonally rich or bassy tubes in the right side, and more spacious/open tubes in the left side to achieve a good balance and benefits of each.
That is interesting. What are the two sides? In my Integrated amp, the smaller driver tubes impart most of the sound characteristics, but the power tubes need synergy with the drivers or it will all go to crap.
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
post-14798820
Post #44,293 of 63,045

johnjen

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,097
Reaction score
2,276
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Posts
3,097
Likes
2,276
JJ- about four months ago, I hear my first tube headphone amplifier, with a good set of headphones.
I got bitten by the bug.
Having a zero reference point, the most remarkable difference I have experienced is the "settling in" or "breaking in" of the different tubes over time. Obviously the stock tube, and two "new production" tubes have been coming into song. I have purchased some rather inexpensive used (not-NOS but "test Good") which have been remarkable in sound quality.
I rotate ("roll") them regularly, each getting several hours on them each time.
I write an 'Audio Log' of changes and descriptions of how the SQ morphs thru time.
And I reset the 'counter' after every major change (and even some minor changes) to my system and note the SQ patterns that emerge.
Of course this is all based upon my system, so these results may not directly apply to other systems.

Even so I would suggest that when you roll tubes leave them alone for 'a while', which in my case, at the moment, is many 10's of hours, and as my 45 amp requires less and less tweaking the 10's of hrs will increase to 100's of hrs, which is the time scale I usually use for all of the tweaking I perform.
This is the procedure I have refined over the course of years and it has proven itself to be quite helpful in helping to steer which of my experiments are 'next' as those that don't contribute in a positive way, are weeded out.

In addition the first several hrs of operation (after thermal equilibrium has been reached) can sometimes be used as an initial guide, but I have found it is only an initial 'taste' of what the 'full' SQ has to deliver.
And as an example it has taken several hundred hrs stretching upwards of 1-2Khrs before the full beneficial impact is in full evidence for some of my experiments.

And no I don't have an explanation as to why it can take so long, only that it's a pattern that has been repeatedly repeated, with variations over the course of years, as I track all of these changes, one at a time.

But the observed SQ shifts and changes can, in some cases, be surprising and biggly wonderful/delightful.

And I'd say try the 10's of hrs experiment to see if it holds true for you as well.
It certainly can't hurt and you might just discover that your system can deliver surprises of it's own.

JJ
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: Rensek
post-14798822
Post #44,294 of 63,045

jsiegel14072

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
219
Reaction score
172
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Posts
219
Likes
172
Unison USB could fit into anything we want it to. Heck, it could fit in Fulla 2. It's actually physically smaller than our current C-Media based solution. However, Unison is a bit more expensive than our current USB input, and, as mentioned before, this is a future-looking product (no W7 support), so we'll be careful what we put it in until W7 is well and truly dead. So, Unison small products are pretty far out. Expect to see it in a card first.
so only one more year?
Microsoft ended mainstream support for Windows 7 on January 13, 2015, but extended support won't end until January 14, 2020 - announced last week
 
     Share This Post       
post-14798836
Post #44,295 of 63,045

johnjen

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,097
Reaction score
2,276
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Location
Well Grounded, here and now
Posts
3,097
Likes
2,276
I warm most everything up for a half hour to an hour before I listen.

And some things I never turn off, ie..Yggy and my Jotunheim

even the maker of my solid-state integrated amp Anthem, recommends in the owner's manual you warm it up for a half an hour before listening.

I warm up my Lyr2 for around an hour mostly not for the tubes but for the entire amplifier to get toasty.

I do believe it sounds better this way. The magic doesn't really happen till it's very warm to the touch. :L3000:
I too leave my JggyB and Rok amp on all the time.
But I will listen to the 45 amp as it warms up just to hear what the SQ does as it morphs from 'cold' to fully thermally stabilized.
And it appears that these 'burn in hrs' are cumulative, thankfully.

And I really do wonder what the heck is going on that results in these variations of SQ as the hrs accumulate, because I'd REALLY like to make these sorts of behaviors stop, go away, cease and desist, but thus far, all of my fussing has done is in some cases just lengthened the time it takes to fully stabilize.
Sorta going backwards in this regard.

And since the 45 amp is still being fussed with, and on a semi regular basis, it hasn't had the length of time (not 10's but 100's of hrs) of no changes.
And the pattern has emerged that at ≈ 40+hrs (in this case, after I tweaked the 45's bias) there is a remarkable SQ step up, which I'm hearing even as I write this.

Elsewhere we use the term REALNESS as a descriptor of SQ and when I hit this time 'window' of ≈ 40+hrs, that REALNESS button gets mashed down, hard, and in no uncertain terms.

This is when the magic smacks you up side yer head.

JJ
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 81, Guests: 116)

Top