[golfbravobravo]

I was curious about the LISSTs and found a used quad that I decided to try out. That’s what I was up to when I took that pic actually.

The quad of LISST I found had nice tonality and density, but lost a lot of that tube openness and spaciousness and soundstaging. So I decided to try out a pair in each of the stages along with a set of tubes. By swapping back and forth I was able to determine that you can retain a lot of the openness/spaciousness by having good tubes in the left side output stage, but still gain a lot of the tonal benefits from the LISST in the right side gain stage. This is my favourite sounding tube setup for Freya so far.

Based on that, as far as putting different pairs in Freya, you may want to try tonally rich or bassy tubes in the right side, and more spacious/open tubes in the left side to achieve a good balance and benefits of each.

Thanks for that! I got the Russian 6N8S tubes from Schiit this morning and immediately plonked them in the Freya. I just loved the bass response, but the mids (voice like Leonard Cohen "You want it Darker" and Elvis Costello "North") are disappointing so far. The top end is not as smooth for things like big band (Gordon Goodwin). All this vs the Schiit TungSols. Of course, I have no idea how much time (any?) is on the 6Ns, so it may be that they mature.

I do have the LISSTs that I bought with the Freya but thought them a little too flat across the range. Your idea is fascinating, it had never occurred to me to mix varieties in matched pairs, seems so obvious now!

Thanks again,

Cheers

 

[valiant66]

Nice setup. I realized late last year that I had built up quite a stack of Schiit myself - was up to 10 units, but now down to 8, mainly because I was comparing A few DACs between a couple of systems (some of which are sold now).

Nice setup! Are those speakers on the stands Totems?
.

 

[rlow]

You were comparing 2 types of Gungnirs?

Yes I was at the time, both Multibit. I had an older/early version (with Gen 5 USB upgrade), and a newer one purchased new last year. They definitely sounded a bit different, but whether one was “better” than the other I think is somewhat subjective. There were aspects of each I liked.

Nice setup! Are those speakers on the stands Totems?
.

The are Dynaudio Special Fortys. Great, great sounding speakers, but not cheap! Luckily I found a great deal on a demo pair, otherwise pretty pricey for bookshelfs IMO.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

1. The first article boards came in on Friday at 5PM. "First article" means they are test boards, not the full run, to make sure they are correct.
2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.
3. Their pick and place programming looks like it is slightly off, so we had some resistors in the wrong place. No idea why, sometimes Schiit just happens.
4. However, with the resistors swapped and some pots tacked in, they program and appear to run fine. We'll see how well they do over burn-in for a couple of days.
5. The parts the assembly house needs have been ordered for Monday/Tuesday.

So...will we get some Aegirs out in February? Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, they're coming soon.

 

[sam6550a]

Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

1. The first article boards came in on Friday at 5PM. "First article" means they are test boards, not the full run, to make sure they are correct.
2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.
3. Their pick and place programming looks like it is slightly off, so we had some resistors in the wrong place. No idea why, sometimes Schiit just happens.
4. However, with the resistors swapped and some pots tacked in, they program and appear to run fine. We'll see how well they do over burn-in for a couple of days.
5. The parts the assembly house needs have been ordered for Monday/Tuesday.

So...will we get some Aegirs out in February? Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, they're coming soon.

You cannot rush (near) perfection.

 

[valiant66]

The are Dynaudio Special Fortys. Great, great sounding speakers, but not cheap! Luckily I found a great deal on a demo pair, otherwise pretty pricey for bookshelfs IMO.

Ah, thanks. The drivers and finish are very remiscent of my Mani-2s. As a data point I just found the receipt for them the other day and I paid around CAD$4000.
.

 

[johnjen]

Thanks for that! I got the Russian 6N8S tubes from Schiit this morning and immediately plonked them in the Freya. I just loved the bass response, but the mids (voice like Leonard Cohen "You want it Darker" and Elvis Costello "North") are disappointing so far. The top end is not as smooth for things like big band (Gordon Goodwin). All this vs the Schiit TungSols. Of course, I have no idea how much time (any?) is on the 6Ns, so it may be that they mature.

I do have the LISSTs that I bought with the Freya but thought them a little too flat across the range. Your idea is fascinating, it had never occurred to me to mix varieties in matched pairs, seems so obvious now!

Thanks again,

Cheers

My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

and allow 15 minutes for the tubes to warm up each time you turn your amp on before doing any critical listening.

JC

 

[FrivolsListener]

Hey all, quick update on Aegir:

2. Unfortunately, we gave the assembly house the wrong potentiometers, and they do not fit. This is a new 5-turn pot used for adjusting bias. No, please don't adjust them yourselves.

I hope that you, er, pot those pots so that they don't move in shipping or other things that could vibrate them!

 

[rkw]

Schiit Unison USB is a USB receiver card for Schiit DACs that is claimed to improve on previous hardware for connecting the DAC to a digital source. The reason this is useful is that USB, S/PDIF coax, and AES are electrical connections that can carry electrical noise into the delicate innards of the DAC. Experience shows that earlier, off-the-shelf USB receiver parts are less good at isolating the DAC from that noise than S/PDIF or AES, not just for Schiit DACs but also for many others. Schiit's Gen 5 USB addressed the issue in part, but arguably Gen 5 USB is still not as good as AES from a good source. But Unison USB might actually bridge the gap or even supplant S/PDIF and AES, at least to judge from the reports of beta testers. Note that all of the USB cards we are talking about here work with the same USB Audio Class 2 protocol, the differences are in how the electrical signals are managed to minimize noise and timing issues on the synchronous connection between the USB card and the DAC circuitry.

While searching for the Unison beta tester reports, I discovered that there is an audio company named Unison, as well as products in the pro audio world.

http://www.unisonresearch.com/en/
https://www.uaudio.com/blog/unison-quick-tip/​

Schiit might want to dig around their Norse encyclopedia for another name.

 

[Robert Padgett]

My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ

JJ- about four months ago, I hear my first tube headphone amplifier, with a good set of headphones.
I got bitten by the bug.
Having a zero reference point, the most remarkable difference I have experienced is the "settling in" or "breaking in" of the different tubes over time. Obviously the stock tube, and two "new production" tubes have been coming into song. I have purchased some rather inexpensive used (not-NOS but "test Good") which have been remarkable in sound quality.
I rotate ("roll") them regularly, each getting several hours on them each time.

Hey, it has been a fun adventure, and certainly less expensive that a day at Disney World...

and allow 15 minutes for the tubes to warm up each time you turn your amp on before doing any critical listening.

JC

I turn the tubes on, and let them warm up, and have noted improvement into the listening session-- or my ears adjust and they apply the 'mellow' filter.

 

[mp29k]

My experience leads me to say, give ANY tube several tens of hrs of run time BEFORE evaluating them.
In my system it seems to take ≈ 40+hrs of operation before the magic becomes apparent.
This applies to both new and used tubes, and if any additional fussing is performed to the system.
I can't 'explain' why, but this has been a consistent observation since my 45 amp came on line, as well as decades ago when I had an all tube system.

JJ

I like to let mine warm up for about an hour before listening. Currently: temple of the dog > Audio-Technica AT7V > Audio-Technica ATLP120 > Lounge Audio LCR mk3 > Musical Paradise MP301 Mk3 deluxe [d: General Electric 5693 “red hots” p: electro harmonix 6550EH] > Tekton design Lore.

 

[the finisher]

I like to let mine warm up for about an hour before listening. Currently: temple of the dog > Audio-Technica AT7V > Audio-Technica ATLP120 > Lounge Audio LCR mk3 > Musical Paradise MP301 Mk3 deluxe [d: General Electric 5693 “red hots” p: electro harmonix 6550EH] > Tekton design Lore.

I warm most everything up for a half hour to an hour before I listen.

And some things I never turn off, ie..Yggy and my Jotunheim

even the maker of my solid-state integrated amp Anthem, recommends in the owner's manual you warm it up for a half an hour before listening.

I warm up my Lyr2 for around an hour mostly not for the tubes but for the entire amplifier to get toasty.

I do believe it sounds better this way. The magic doesn't really happen till it's very warm to the touch.

 

[mp29k]

I was curious about the LISSTs and found a used quad that I decided to try out. That’s what I was up to when I took that pic actually.

The quad of LISST I found had nice tonality and density, but lost a lot of that tube openness and spaciousness and soundstaging. So I decided to try out a pair in each of the stages along with a set of tubes. By swapping back and forth I was able to determine that you can retain a lot of the openness/spaciousness by having good tubes in the left side output stage, but still gain a lot of the tonal benefits from the LISST in the right side gain stage. This is my favourite sounding tube setup for Freya so far.

Based on that, as far as putting different pairs in Freya, you may want to try tonally rich or bassy tubes in the right side, and more spacious/open tubes in the left side to achieve a good balance and benefits of each.

That is interesting. What are the two sides? In my Integrated amp, the smaller driver tubes impart most of the sound characteristics, but the power tubes need synergy with the drivers or it will all go to crap.

 

[johnjen]

JJ- about four months ago, I hear my first tube headphone amplifier, with a good set of headphones.
I got bitten by the bug.
Having a zero reference point, the most remarkable difference I have experienced is the "settling in" or "breaking in" of the different tubes over time. Obviously the stock tube, and two "new production" tubes have been coming into song. I have purchased some rather inexpensive used (not-NOS but "test Good") which have been remarkable in sound quality.
I rotate ("roll") them regularly, each getting several hours on them each time.

I write an 'Audio Log' of changes and descriptions of how the SQ morphs thru time.
And I reset the 'counter' after every major change (and even some minor changes) to my system and note the SQ patterns that emerge.
Of course this is all based upon my system, so these results may not directly apply to other systems.

Even so I would suggest that when you roll tubes leave them alone for 'a while', which in my case, at the moment, is many 10's of hours, and as my 45 amp requires less and less tweaking the 10's of hrs will increase to 100's of hrs, which is the time scale I usually use for all of the tweaking I perform.
This is the procedure I have refined over the course of years and it has proven itself to be quite helpful in helping to steer which of my experiments are 'next' as those that don't contribute in a positive way, are weeded out.

In addition the first several hrs of operation (after thermal equilibrium has been reached) can sometimes be used as an initial guide, but I have found it is only an initial 'taste' of what the 'full' SQ has to deliver.
And as an example it has taken several hundred hrs stretching upwards of 1-2Khrs before the full beneficial impact is in full evidence for some of my experiments.

And no I don't have an explanation as to why it can take so long, only that it's a pattern that has been repeatedly repeated, with variations over the course of years, as I track all of these changes, one at a time.

But the observed SQ shifts and changes can, in some cases, be surprising and biggly wonderful/delightful.

And I'd say try the 10's of hrs experiment to see if it holds true for you as well.
It certainly can't hurt and you might just discover that your system can deliver surprises of it's own.

JJ