Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Aug 7, 2017 at 7:34 AM Post #23,296 of 87,872

jseymour

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I dont use the Gen. 2 USB converter in my Gumby. I use a Yellowtec PUC2 Lite with an Neutrik AES-BNC converter and it is a big improvement. I will not upgrade to Gen. 5 before I have read some comparisons to a good outboard USB-converter, like Yellowtec, Stello U3, Audiophilleo etc. I hope that Gen. 5 is "up there" but I have my doubts...

I did replace a PUC2 Lite with an Eitr. It was powered with a USB Disruptor P.S. The Eitr provides better clarity. For the cost of the Eitr, it was a no brainer purchase.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 11:38 AM Post #23,298 of 87,872

landroni

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If I want to know what something sounds like, I don't want to also know what it costs, how visually impressive the enclosure looks, the reviewer's opinion of the manufacturer, the effectiveness of the manufacturer's marketing team, etc...

Cool beans. Ping me when you devise a valid DBT methodology for headphones and IEMs... I have a real hankering to know if my Apple ear buds sound any different from a Focal Utopia. Since I never evaluated these in a blind setting, I can't know how they really sound, right?
 
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Aug 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM Post #23,299 of 87,872

CarlosUnchained

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Cool beans. Ping me when you devise a valid DBT methodology for headphones and IEMs... I have a real hankering to know if my Apple ear buds sound any different from a Focal Utopia. Since I never evaluated these in a blind setting, I can't know how they really sound, right?

Those are apples and oranges to compare, but when you claim your $$$ cable opens up the soundstage you better have some good arguments. The only thing I can completely trust in those cases (and even less flamboyant ones) is an ABX test. Show me the results and tell me you can >95% of the time tell the difference. Then hey, you suddenly have a much more valid point to make than just a claim.

There's a certain point where bias plays such a big role that you shouldn't trust anybody's claims.

Be skeptic and always try for yourself. We are all biased, but not in the same way.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 12:00 PM Post #23,300 of 87,872

landroni

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Those are apples and oranges to compare

Yeah, I'm interested in how two different transducers sound. If I never evaluated them in blind conditions, I don't know how they sound, right?

Anyways... If that's a stretch, I'll settle with valid DBT methodology for Koss PortaPro and Focal Utopia. Let me know when you've done that.

PS And I do mean true double-blind, the whole shebang: neither the test subject nor the administrator know what's being tested at any given time. So none of that amteurish self-administered DBT.
 
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Aug 7, 2017 at 12:32 PM Post #23,301 of 87,872

AudioBear

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I love these discussions of testing but before this spins out of control it's worth noting that all such discussions sooner or later get banished to the Sound Science forum where they probably belong. I'm agnostic about the issue. Whatever floats your boat. Me? I believe in ABX, DBT, and subjective impressions. They all matter. In my field of science a well done DBT is about the only way to assess outcomes of a treatment. Well done testing usually yields reliable results. Independent verification is usually required and is often lacking in audio studies. And as always in life, tests are sometimes off target. So are subjective evaluations. There are times you need one or the other and times you need both. Ultimately most of us buy what sounds good to us personally or we take a shot at a Schiit product we've never heard,. That hasn't failed me yet.

All of this said, DBT or ABX on a set of earphones is a bit of a challenge unless you can build two absolutely identical cans made with different headphones without changing their sound. I'd like to see that done! Nothing is impossible but this is a tall order since changing the physical enclosure effects the sound.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 1:03 PM Post #23,303 of 87,872

rlkeel0

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Not clear to me: if we go with the self install option on USB Gen5, does it still include the 2 year warranty? How would they verify that if I bought my bifrost second hand?
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 1:06 PM Post #23,304 of 87,872

rkw

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I'm clueless as to why there exists a resounding distaste for blind tests on this site.
It is a pervasive attitude throughout the audio enthusiast world, and it comes from fear. People become convinced about a difference they hear and they are afraid that a blind test may reach a different conclusion, which could make them look like a fool. So they will make preemptive attacks on the methodology even before the test is conducted. Fundamentally, this is more about human nature than scientific methodology.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 1:39 PM Post #23,306 of 87,872

landroni

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It is a pervasive attitude throughout the audio enthusiast world, and it comes from fear. People become convinced about a difference they hear and they are afraid that a blind test may reach a different conclusion, which could make them look like a fool. So they will make preemptive attacks on the methodology even before the test is conducted. Fundamentally, this is more about human nature than scientific methodology.

Quite on the contrary. Religious embracing of DBT is a pervasive attitude throughout the Sound Scientism universe, and it comes from fear. Self-styled "objectivists" become convinced that no difference can be heard for some classes of products* and they are afraid that others can hear things that they themselves cannot**, which could make them look like a fool. So they will make preemptive attacks on those who insist that differences exist for some products by mischievously requiring people to prove their subjective perceptions, which is devilishly difficult if you're serious about it, and DBT cannot really help you with that if you have a modicum of real-life, professional experience with it. Fundamentally, this is more about a sociological phenomenon*** than scientific methodology.

* Usually "objectist" protestations miraculously concern quasi-exclusively formats, cables, DACs and amps -- absolutely MUST be DBTed!!! --, while completely ignoring things like transducers, tubes, vinyl tables, plinths, cartridges, arms, motors, etc., etc. -- requiring DBT for these is tantamount to trolling for them. Think cognitive dissonance.
** For examples of evaluations performed in self-administered DBT conditions see "Life after Yggdrasil". And yes, whichever the THD, differences can be perceived between most of those DACs.
*** Scroll to Cult of Science section.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 2:47 PM Post #23,308 of 87,872
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Wow, it's a crazy week. We're needing to put in a Gmail-based system to allow multiple accounts to coordinate support, I'm working on a website reorganization to make things more logical (and highlight Schiitr/SchiitKit shows/shows/places you can try our stuff physically), we're needing to hire--and we need help at the Schiitr! If you are interested, or know anyone who's interested, and has time 10-6 Thursday-Sunday (or at least part of that time), contact alex@schiit.com
 
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Aug 7, 2017 at 2:51 PM Post #23,309 of 87,872

FLTWS

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Sounds like one of those "good" problems!
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM Post #23,310 of 87,872

Pandahead

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That's great news! Yes the Schiitr is kind of hard to find, on the web page that is. Yes, a good problem list. :) Wish I lived out there.
 

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