Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Dec 14, 2016 at 11:36 PM Post #15,076 of 87,641

MefAudio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Posts
104
Likes
30
Freya will be my first piece of tube gear and I wanted to put it in black and white. When rolling tubes with Freya it will sound best with matched quads (4 matched tubes) But one can get away with just rolling the input buffers (2 tubes on the right side). Balanced, high gain and low noise options dont matter, but matched does when buying tubes for Freya. Also the consensus is the RCA red base 5692s are the bomb.com. Did I mess that up or is that pretty close?
 
Dec 14, 2016 at 11:41 PM Post #15,077 of 87,641

theveterans

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
2,391
Likes
1,071
Location
Santa Rosa, Laguna, Philippines
Freya will be my first piece of tube gear and I wanted to put it in black and white. When rolling tubes with Freya it will sound best with matched quads (4 matched tubes) But one can get away with just rolling the input buffers (2 tubes on the right side). Balanced, high gain and low noise options dont matter, but matched does when buying tubes for Freya. Also the consensus is the RCA red base 5692s are the bomb.com. Did I mess that up or is that pretty close?

 
No one knows until one reviews it with those tubes. With Saga, the RCA red base 5692 is the bomb.com but you can't say that for Freya with 100% confidence. Same with matched quads vs matched pairs.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 1:05 AM Post #15,078 of 87,641

Topmounter

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Posts
113
Likes
29
Location
High Country Colorado
Freya will be my first piece of tube gear and I wanted to put it in black and white. When rolling tubes with Freya it will sound best with matched quads (4 matched tubes) But one can get away with just rolling the input buffers (2 tubes on the right side). Balanced, high gain and low noise options dont matter, but matched does when buying tubes for Freya. Also the consensus is the RCA red base 5692s are the bomb.com. Did I mess that up or is that pretty close?

 
Jason stated earlier in this thread that a quad is unnecessary, just two pair.  Regardless, I've had good luck with new production pre-amp tubes.  Namely Psvane's 12AU7 tubes, but it doesn't appear that they make a reasonably priced 6SN7.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 1:40 AM Post #15,079 of 87,641

AviP

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Posts
315
Likes
94
   
Jason stated earlier in this thread that a quad is unnecessary, just two pair.  Regardless, I've had good luck with new production pre-amp tubes.  Namely Psvane's 12AU7 tubes, but it doesn't appear that they make a reasonably priced 6SN7.

 
With respect to tubes, yes, you'll want matched tubes at least for the input pair. The input pair does voltage gain, so it's the most critical. The input pair is on the right-hand side of the quad. The output pair is on the left-hand side. It's a follower, so it's less critical. 
 
We're also doing some degeneration of the input, so matching will be less critical, but you're still going to want to have reasonable matching.
 
No biasing is necessary, since the input is run off a current source, which sets the operating point of the whole system.
 

This^
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 2:37 AM Post #15,080 of 87,641

RoundRound

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Posts
356
Likes
68

So just to clarify,
If I have two matched pairs and even matched can be 10% difference iwth tubes - will I have channe imbalance (volume wise) as they perform differently or would the Freya somehow compensate?
 
Toob Noob here. 
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 7:05 AM Post #15,081 of 87,641

bigro

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Posts
1,056
Likes
537
 
So just to clarify,
If I have two matched pairs and even matched can be 10% difference iwth tubes - will I have channe imbalance (volume wise) as they perform differently or would the Freya somehow compensate?
 
Toob Noob here. 

As Long as you keep the Matched Pairs together , Meaning 1 Matched set for the Input side and the other matched set on the output sideyou should not have any perceivable channel imbalance. As Reposted by AViP, Jason said The Design does not require perfect matching but reasonably close will work fine. 
 
My Plan is to utilize the two sets of Stock tubes as outputs as they will have little impact on overall sound and the Pairs Fancy / Semi Fancy NOS ones I bought as Inputs. The Stock Tubes are already matched, so I have some years before I have to worry about getting a new set of output tubes again, and I can roll the inputs until I have a big stupid grin on my face. 
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 7:25 AM Post #15,082 of 87,641

RoundRound

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Posts
356
Likes
68
  As Long as you keep the Matched Pairs together , Meaning 1 Matched set for the Input side and the other matched set on the output sideyou should not have any perceivable channel imbalance. As Reposted by AViP, Jason said The Design does not require perfect matching but reasonably close will work fine. 
 
My Plan is to utilize the two sets of Stock tubes as outputs as they will have little impact on overall sound and the Pairs Fancy / Semi Fancy NOS ones I bought as Inputs. The Stock Tubes are already matched, so I have some years before I have to worry about getting a new set of output tubes again, and I can roll the inputs until I have a big stupid grin on my face. 


Thank you!
 
How matched is considered matched? 10%? Also I understand that tubes can 'decay' at different rates even if they are matched and used in the same way?
 
Lastly, do we know what model of Tubes Schiit will issue? I think they mentioned they are Russian NOS - I imagine something fairly affordable and abundant?
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 7:56 AM Post #15,083 of 87,641

bigro

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Posts
1,056
Likes
537
 
Thank you!
 
How matched is considered matched? 10%? Also I understand that tubes can 'decay' at different rates even if they are matched and used in the same way?
 
Lastly, do we know what model of Tubes Schiit will issue? I think they mentioned they are Russian NOS - I imagine something fairly affordable and abundant?

On Matching... that Depends on who you talk to. I do not think 10% is unreasonable Some places match to 5%. Obviously the closer the better, I am not sure If I would go much higher than 10% just for my piece of mind, but some amps/preamps may tolerate more without adverse affects. Depending on the conditions that moment Tube specs will vary so they are never perfect. Unless you are running with a 20% or more Variance I would not expect that much of a difference in "decay". Get a good matched set Plug it in and see if its what you like. I believe you are over thinking a bit (I know I do the same thing). Modern Tube Gear for the most part is really not that complicated from the end users standpoint. 
 
Yeah from the other gear I use they usually get a range of good very abundant tubes. Your set may be of a different pedigree than other people. Part of the fun. Lets hope we don't get into the " Hey your stock tube set is nicer than mine.... MOM!!!"
 
 
added-  I just remembered about this thread, there is a lot of 6SN7 Info here  http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 11:21 AM Post #15,084 of 87,641

33na3rd

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Posts
361
Likes
1,399
Location
SW Washington State

When I buy tubes, they are matched 1-2%.
 
I wouldn't bother with 10%, myself. Even 5% would get my OCD going.
 
There are lots of reputable dealers out there that will do this kind of matching, and it only cost a bit more. It's worth the extra money to save yourself from aggravation.
 
 
Freya has no balance control, so you really want those tubes matched closely.
 
Matched tubes will age a bit differently, but if they are matched well to begin with, the change will take quite awhile & be subtle. Small signal tubes such as preamp tubes, get stressed much less than output tubes, so they will last much longer with minor drift.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 11:26 AM Post #15,085 of 87,641

ZoNtO

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Posts
1,116
Likes
165
Which online vendors match with those tolerances?
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 11:57 AM Post #15,086 of 87,641

Ableza

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Posts
5,532
Likes
21,894
Location
Valley of the Sun
OCD?  Then you probably shouldn't touch anything with tubes.  :)  As long as the Mu (voltage gain) of the tubes are close, say within 3 to 4 points, you will not hear any balance differences.  Tube matching to "1-2%" is likely a waste of money of you care about how it sounds.  If you care about numbers, then sure go for it.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 12:02 PM Post #15,087 of 87,641

33na3rd

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Posts
361
Likes
1,399
Location
SW Washington State
  Which online vendors match with those tolerances?

 
https://tubeworldexpress.com
 
http://www.audiotubes.com/bjtubes.htm
 
http://www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm
 
http://vintagetubeservices.com
 
http://www.upscaleaudio.com
 
I will have to mention that some of these vendors can not match NOS 6SN7's as closely as they could in the past, as the supply is getting smaller. The vendors above that carry new production 6SN7's do not have this problem.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 12:11 PM Post #15,088 of 87,641

33na3rd

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Posts
361
Likes
1,399
Location
SW Washington State
  Tube matching to "1-2%" is likely a waste of money of you care about how it sounds.  If you care about numbers, then sure go for it.

 
Last time I ordered tubes, It cost me $10 per pair more for the 1-2%. 
 
I don't think that's particularly expensive. With a little luck, those tubes should last 5 to 10 years.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 12:33 PM Post #15,089 of 87,641

Ableza

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Posts
5,532
Likes
21,894
Location
Valley of the Sun
And 1% matching will last for a few hours, don't kid yourself.
 
Dec 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM Post #15,090 of 87,641

Mr Rick

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Posts
2,609
Likes
1,000
Location
Costa Mesa, Ca
WOW, all this talk about tubes. Perhaps someone should start a separate thread about tube rolling in Schiit equipment........................................wait a minute.
mad.gif

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top