[DrewVz]

So, is the Unison USB connection "just as good as" any of the coax/optical/BNC inputs? My source right now is a laptop with limited outputs (USB, HDMI only). Thanks.

 

[macdonjh]

I've moved into the top three quartiles in line for the upgrade. At the rate the line is moving, I'll be able to tell you next year. I hope the parts shortage resolves itself in our favor soon.

 

[schneller]

I know there is a chip shortage. I know about the supply chain problems. Despite this, you think Schiit could at least tease us with some Gungnir news.

• Why is it the only Schiit DAC not yet available in black finish?
• Will we be getting a Gungnir2?
• Will Schiit maybe try to create an "ultimate SE" DAC to go head-to-head in terms of SQ/size/form factor with the Chord Qutest?

 

[SnowRang3r]

I know there is a chip shortage. I know about the supply chain problems. Despite this, you think Schiit could at least tease us with some Gungnir news.

• Why is it the only Schiit DAC not yet available in black finish?
• Will we be getting a Gungnir2?
• Will Schiit maybe try to create an "ultimate SE" DAC to go head-to-head in terms of SQ/size/form factor with the Chord Qutest?

If you watch the latest live streams there are some hints at future updates.

Mike/Dave have been working on making the upscaling/filtering work in an FPGA instead of the Sharp DSP chips.

They’re also experimenting with their own Delta-sigma to see if they can do better than the off the shelf designs out there.

I’d also love to see a Gungnir2 with the Autonomy (field upgradable) functionality in Bifrost2, a remote and whatever other improvements they can do but I don’t think it’s their current top priority. Hopefully we see it one day

 

[macdonjh]

If you watch the latest live streams there are some hints at future updates.

Mike/Dave have been working on making the upscaling/filtering work in an FPGA instead of the Sharp DSP chips.

They’re also experimenting with their own Delta-sigma to see if they can do better than the off the shelf designs out there.

I’d also love to see a Gungnir2 with the Autonomy (field upgradable) functionality in Bifrost2, a remote and whatever other improvements they can do but I don’t think it’s their current top priority. Hopefully we see it one day

I hope any major upgrades like that hit before my number in the multibit queue comes up...

 

[macdonjh]

I think I am finally beginning to understand the differences between my Bifrost multibit and Gungnir delta-sigma. I'll have to reverse my initial impression the Bifrost has bigger bass than Gungnir. At least tonight, Gungnir reached lower and played bass more forward than Bifrost. Gungnir is also more controlled up top, Bifrost is splashy in comparison. Gungnir also presents a smoother, more refined sound, perhaps that impression is created by the treble, but it extends throughout the frequency spectrum.

Bifrost, conversely, is more forward with vocals, with better articulation. And now, here is where I have to leave the usual metaphors centered around spatial descriptions and colors. Here is the hard thing to articulate: even with better detail retrieval and more control in the highs, Gungnir actually sounds a bit veiled compared to Bifrost. I know that sounds like an oxymoron but: rather than thinking about these two as pieces of equipment I'll switch and describe them as two singers. My wife is a fan of The Voice. When I watch with her I sometimes hear singers who have skill, range, power, control. There are others, though, who can really deliver the song, even if based on individual skills they're not as good as the former. I think of the former as singers, the latter as performers. The former have skills, the latter have stage presence.

Extending this metaphor to electronics, the Gungnir delta-sigma is the skill-range-power-control performer: smoother, better detail retrieval, more control at least in the treble. Bifrost is the performer: looser and more "open". Getting back to our more typical adjectives: Gungnir might be more analytical, Bifrost more fun.

For me, this all becomes important when I stop trying to listen for individual characteristics of each component's sound and start listening to the gestalt. I'll admit, I often listen as much to the sound as the music, and I can get distracted when something in the sound seems off. When everything comes together, I don't get distracted listening for things which are particularly right or a bit off.

Bifrost multi-bit really impresses me with its overall sound as compared to the analog output from the DAPs I use. Now that I have a Gungnir, I want that refined detail, too now. So that's what I hope the multi-bit brings to Gungnir, if I ever get to the top of the queue: keep the deep bass and smooth refined control, but add the stage presence of Bifrost. I hope Gungnir multi-bit lets go a bit and opens up.

 

[macdonjh]

Cross post:

I broke up my test rig a few days ago: DAP -> Bifrost or Gungnir -> Mjolnir and brought my Gungnir DS out to the living room. So when I've had the time over the past few days I've had DAP -> Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir -> Stax SR-Lambda. It's been a really enjoyable few days. The combination is quite smooth, with lots of detail and the nearly preternatural transient response of the Stax. The Aegir does a fine job energizing the electrostatic drivers. There is plenty of energy even for large-scale music. Bass is satisfying, vocals a a touch forward which makes them dramatic and easily understood, and the highs sparkly and bright.

I am still quite interested in the Gungnir multi-bit board (#77 of 105, no progress up the ladder for the past couple of days). As pleasant the the DS board is, I think I miss some of the bite of the Bifrost multi-bit. I like the extra detail retrieval, the extra finesse of the Gungnir, I am hopeful the multi-bit board moves the sound a bit to the analytical side. I'd like a little more "edge" to the sound.

Sooner rather than later, I'll have to bring my HE-500 out to the living room...

 

[Mozbach]

I was so curious about the differences between the BF2 and the Gumby that I got both and made a review about it. I absolutely love the Gumby and am sad I sold it! I posted this elsewhere but hope this helps people pick out the differences in sound between the two.



Edit- starts at 17:29

Hi,

Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes). Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!

Happy to solicit your and others views.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Hi,

Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes). Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!

Happy to solicit your and others views.

The Gumby A2/gen5 imo is in a different league. I had both and sold the BF2. Initially I bought my gumby simply for stacking purposes for my Mjolnir 2. Everything I read before acquiring the gumby made it sound like they were really close in performance and some even said the BF2 did things better.
My subjective opinion is the gumby is hands down the better dac.

 

[Mozbach]

Super..+1 for the gumby..

Also heard/read that the Gumby works best in balanced set up and the SE being gimped isnt as resolving? Whereas read that BF2 doesnt have gimped output (i.e. both SE and BAL equally good). Im only using SE interconnects throughout my system. Should that be a concern? Sorry but not that experienced in Hifi

​

@hodgjy - id consider myself to be 'balanced curious', especially since m eyeing a balanced HP amp. Apart from voltage output differences impacting gain, would balanced config. also impact quality of output (i.e. will i lose the plankton? )

 

[DrewVz]

Having just procured a Gumby A2/Unison and comparing it against my Bifrost2, there simply is no comparison. The Gumby is so much clearer, handles bass and sub-bass much better, with significantly better separation. The only thing I can say about the Bifrost2 is that it is warmer and *possibly* more relaxing to listen to as a result. But the Gumby is by far the better DAC. It's no contest.

I compared both using SE outputs, as my preamp isn't balanced. And the Gumby still trounced the Bifrost2. I was hesitant to buy the Gumby because I thought I was satisfied with the Bifrost2, but I'm glad I did. One of the best purchases I've made in hi-fi.

 

[macdonjh]

Hi,

Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes). Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!

Happy to solicit your and others views.

I'm a little farther down the road you are contemplating walking. I've made a few posts in this thread recently about what I've been changing in my system...

I have a Bifrost I multi-bit, and bought a Gungnir delta-sigma because I've been curious for a couple of years about what you gain by climbing the ladder. First off, I bought my Bifrost because I was initially curious about adding a DAC to my system. I've always poo-pooed DACs as incremental changes at best. I mean, bits are bits after all. Adding Bifrost to my head phone system was an immediately noticeable change, for the better to me, in my system over just using the DAC in my DAPs. I'd been frustrated by the lack of deep bass and bass slam, Bifrost cured that. Resolution increased. Overall timbre and presentation were more pleasing to me. When listening to head phones I don't pay much attention to sound stage, so I won't comment about that. Generally, everything was better with Bifrost.

Still, Gungnir, especially Gungnir multi-bit, had me curious. I found a Gungnir delta-sigma for a decent price, so I jumped on it. I simultaneously got in line for the multi-bit upgrade. I've been listening to my Gungnir DS for several weeks now, sometimes in A/B comparison with my Bifrost. I think the average person would find the sound pretty close together, but we notice things non-hobbyists don't, right? I agree with @DrewVz, the differences between Gungnir and Bifrost are noticeable. Immediately. With the DS version, bass is fuller, perhaps deeper, maybe set a little further back in the stage. Vocals are usually a bit more forward which to my ear makes them a touch more dramatic and more intelligible. Overall, from top-to-bottom detail retrieval is more complete, I can hear more going on.

What I still prefer about the Bifrost sound is a bit of extra bite in the sound. The Gungnir DS is a little too smooth, a little too laid back for my taste. While I enjoy listening to music with it very much, I sometimes miss the drive, the energy Bifrost provides with it's slightly more analytical sound. The difference is very similar to what I heard when I got my Questyle QP2r DAP and started using it alongside my A&K AK70 Mk II. The QP2r adds that same bit of drive and dynamism to music which makes it more engaging. The A&K is great for Sunday afternoons, and for toning down objectionably bright or taming too-analytical IEMs, but that QP2r is great for "daily driving".

I hope the multi-bit board for the Gungnir gives me that without sacrificing all the smoothness (I know I have to give up some), detail and frequency response goodness I already have. Fingers are crossed.

 

[Mozbach]

I'm a little farther down the road you are contemplating walking. I've made a few posts in this thread recently about what I've been changing in my system...

I have a Bifrost I multi-bit, and bought a Gungnir delta-sigma because I've been curious for a couple of years about what you gain by climbing the ladder. First off, I bought my Bifrost because I was initially curious about adding a DAC to my system. I've always poo-pooed DACs as incremental changes at best. I mean, bits are bits after all. Adding Bifrost to my head phone system was an immediately noticeable change, for the better to me, in my system over just using the DAC in my DAPs. I'd been frustrated by the lack of deep bass and bass slam, Bifrost cured that. Resolution increased. Overall timbre and presentation were more pleasing to me. When listening to head phones I don't pay much attention to sound stage, so I won't comment about that. Generally, everything was better with Bifrost.

Still, Gungnir, especially Gungnir multi-bit, had me curious. I found a Gungnir delta-sigma for a decent price, so I jumped on it. I simultaneously got in line for the multi-bit upgrade. I've been listening to my Gungnir DS for several weeks now, sometimes in A/B comparison with my Bifrost. I think the average person would find the sound pretty close together, but we notice things non-hobbyists don't, right? I agree with @DrewVz, the differences between Gungnir and Bifrost are noticeable. Immediately. With the DS version, bass is fuller, perhaps deeper, maybe set a little further back in the stage. Vocals are usually a bit more forward which to my ear makes them a touch more dramatic and more intelligible. Overall, from top-to-bottom detail retrieval is more complete, I can hear more going on.

What I still prefer about the Bifrost sound is a bit of extra bite in the sound. The Gungnir DS is a little too smooth, a little too laid back for my taste. While I enjoy listening to music with it very much, I sometimes miss the drive, the energy Bifrost provides with it's slightly more analytical sound. The difference is very similar to what I heard when I got my Questyle QP2r DAP and started using it alongside my A&K AK70 Mk II. The QP2r adds that same bit of drive and dynamism to music which makes it more engaging. The A&K is great for Sunday afternoons, and for toning down objectionably bright or taming too-analytical IEMs, but that QP2r is great for "daily driving".

I hope the multi-bit board for the Gungnir gives me that without sacrificing all the smoothness (I know I have to give up some), detail and frequency response goodness I already have. Fingers are crossed.

Would be interesting to hear your views once u have the MB version running (instead of DS). Honestly I'd take musicality over precision any day and r2r/MB/Nos works better for me. Thanks for sharing that journey, it's these shared experiences that help the most in fig out things!

 

[Mozbach]

Having just procured a Gumby A2/Unison and comparing it against my Bifrost2, there simply is no comparison. The Gumby is so much clearer, handles bass and sub-bass much better, with significantly better separation. The only thing I can say about the Bifrost2 is that it is warmer and *possibly* more relaxing to listen to as a result. But the Gumby is by far the better DAC. It's no contest.

I compared both using SE outputs, as my preamp isn't balanced. And the Gumby still trounced the Bifrost2. I was hesitant to buy the Gumby because I thought I was satisfied with the Bifrost2, but I'm glad I did. One of the best purchases I've made in hi-fi.

Thanks.. This is truly insightful.. Another nudge towards gumby.. Given il use the dac in main system (humble system, nothing to boast about) , the gains from gumby become more valuable.. For the HPs (sundara, HD6xx), mimby will be enough I guess. And when I get the upgrade itch, il just plug into the main system with gumby

 

[DrewVz]

Let me also add that I've got tons of D-S DACs laying around after upgrading more times than I care to mention, and the difference between the SMSL M300 and the Bifrost2 ($250 vs $700) was much, much less than the difference between the Bifrost2 and the Gumby. To me, the value proposition is actually in favor of the Gumby, even though it's the most expensive.

If I had it to do all over again, I think I would have stuck with the M300 and the Gumby for my 2 systems and not gone with the BF2. It's a great DAC, but in my opinion not enough of a benefit over the M300. The Gumby is on another level entirely, IMO.