Schiit Eitr impression and USB-SPDIF converters discussion
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:40 AM Post #361 of 1,103

JoeKickass

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The Eitr/Gen 5 should be filtering, re-clocking, converting, purely digital bits. And 1ft of cable should be almost negligible, so I suspect that Eitr and Gen 5 may be very similar in performance.

It's also a hard one to AB test because it takes time to install Gen 5 or switch to Eitr. Probably the only definitive test is to compare two Yggy's side-by-side: one with Gen 5 and one with Gen 3 with an Eitr...
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 11:38 AM Post #362 of 1,103

Marlowe

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I have an odd question. I got the Eitr in August and have been very happy with it. About the same time (though I stupidly did not realize the correlation until recently) I began to have playback problems with the Windows 10 Tidal HiFi app, my source for music which I had previously used for months without any problems. Basically, on HiFi recordings, about 20% of the time when a track concluded the app would not automatically advance to the next track but buffer endlessly until manually advanced. On Master recordings, the track would almost always advance, but at least 80% of the time the next track would be extremely distorted until manually restarted. These problems not only ruined immersion, but also required me to sit by my computer. Although pretty minor, there was also a split-second of crackle or distortion when every new track began. (Without going into details, my experience with Tidal support was so infuriating that I will likely switch back to Spotify if/when they institute a lossless service as rumored.)

In Tidal settings, I had the sound output set to Speakers (Schiit Eitr). However, Tidal sometimes changed the setting--with no input from me--to System Default. And I've now realized when Tidal is set to System Default, it plays perfectly: track advancement is fine, there is no distortion on new Master tracks, there is no momentary crackle when a new track starts. The sound quality appears to be the same (though it's hard to A/B it since the volume on System Default is a little lower than the Schiit Eitr setting even though my PC output is set to 100%; if the volume is set to 10 o'clock on my Valhalla 2 with the Schiit Eitr setting it needs to be advanced to roughly 11 o'clock for the System Default output to match).

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Am I losing anything in SQ by leaving the Tidal setting on System Default? Is there any change I could make in the Eitr Windows 10 properties to eliminate the problem? Thanks in advance.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 12:39 PM Post #363 of 1,103

theveterans

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IMO, you might have a buffer or CPU prioritization (when multitasking) issue with WASAPI on Tidal. System default allows for high buffer cache while WASAPI is much closer to real time, so you have to let Windows prioritize the CPU and HDD to be able to keep up with low latencies without breaking up. In other words, you don't do any other tasks in the computer while you listen to WASAPI.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 12:48 PM Post #364 of 1,103

Ghosthouse

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I have an odd question. I got the Eitr in August and have been very happy with it. About the same time (though I stupidly did not realize the correlation until recently) I began to have playback problems with the Windows 10 Tidal HiFi app, my source for music which I had previously used for months without any problems. Basically, on HiFi recordings, about 20% of the time when a track concluded the app would not automatically advance to the next track but buffer endlessly until manually advanced. On Master recordings, the track would almost always advance, but at least 80% of the time the next track would be extremely distorted until manually restarted. These problems not only ruined immersion, but also required me to sit by my computer. Although pretty minor, there was also a split-second of crackle or distortion when every new track began. (Without going into details, my experience with Tidal support was so infuriating that I will likely switch back to Spotify if/when they institute a lossless service as rumored.)

In Tidal settings, I had the sound output set to Speakers (Schiit Eitr). However, Tidal sometimes changed the setting--with no input from me--to System Default. And I've now realized when Tidal is set to System Default, it plays perfectly: track advancement is fine, there is no distortion on new Master tracks, there is no momentary crackle when a new track starts. The sound quality appears to be the same (though it's hard to A/B it since the volume on System Default is a little lower than the Schiit Eitr setting even though my PC output is set to 100%; if the volume is set to 10 o'clock on my Valhalla 2 with the Schiit Eitr setting it needs to be advanced to roughly 11 o'clock for the System Default output to match).

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Am I losing anything in SQ by leaving the Tidal setting on System Default? Is there any change I could make in the Eitr Windows 10 properties to eliminate the problem? Thanks in advance.

Wish I could help but I run a MacBook. I can understand you wanting to get the best SQ out of Tidal and wondering if you are getting that from System Default. BUT if you can't hear a difference between the two output settings, my advice is don't sweat it. Not an identical problem at all but I have found MQA playback via AQ Dragonfly Red using the Tidal desktop app is a real "magical mystery tour". It just does not seem to work the same way two nights in a row. The larger concern with Tidal is interruptions for buffering. Don't experience this with Spotify. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 7:50 PM Post #365 of 1,103

Marlowe

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IMO, you might have a buffer or CPU prioritization (when multitasking) issue with WASAPI on Tidal. System default allows for high buffer cache while WASAPI is much closer to real time, so you have to let Windows prioritize the CPU and HDD to be able to keep up with low latencies without breaking up. In other words, you don't do any other tasks in the computer while you listen to WASAPI.

Thanks for your help, unfortunately I don't follow any of this and have no familiarity with WASAPI other than it is a Windows audio feature. Am I using it by default? In any case, I shut down all apps other than Tidal and the problems were exactly the same if I set sound output to the Eitr.


Wish I could help but I run a MacBook. I can understand you wanting to get the best SQ out of Tidal and wondering if you are getting that from System Default. BUT if you can't hear a difference between the two output settings, my advice is don't sweat it. Not an identical problem at all but I have found MQA playback via AQ Dragonfly Red using the Tidal desktop app is a real "magical mystery tour". It just does not seem to work the same way two nights in a row. The larger concern with Tidal is interruptions for buffering. Don't experience this with Spotify. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.

MQA is one of the things I don't play with and I just let Tidal decode it in software. My DAC is the Schitt Modi Multibit and Schiit quite intentionally does not include MQA decoding in any of its DACs. After quickly matching for volume (System Default is a bit lower), the SQ seems to be the same. I've played a lot more since I posted and even using the System Default setting, the app did buffer a couple of times at the conclusion of a track requiring manual advancement. That's still a lot better than with the output set to Eitr when it was happening roughly 20% of the time.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:50 PM Post #366 of 1,103

theveterans

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Thanks for your help, unfortunately I don't follow any of this and have no familiarity with WASAPI other than it is a Windows audio feature. Am I using it by default? In any case, I shut down all apps other than Tidal and the problems were exactly the same if I set sound output to the Eitr.

When you set a specific device for audio out, Tidal is using WASAPI out. You should try Foobar2000 to play local files in WASAPI output and see if you get the same glitches as Tidal
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 4:33 AM Post #367 of 1,103

wilflare

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hmm not sure where else to post (but since the Eitr is all about cleaning up the signal)
does anyone know where I can find a post where someone uses a sensor of sort to show how has managed to clean up the RFI/EMI from his system (cables).
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 3:17 PM Post #368 of 1,103

alpovs

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I have an odd question. I got the Eitr in August and have been very happy with it. About the same time (though I stupidly did not realize the correlation until recently) I began to have playback problems with the Windows 10 Tidal HiFi app, my source for music which I had previously used for months without any problems. Basically, on HiFi recordings, about 20% of the time when a track concluded the app would not automatically advance to the next track but buffer endlessly until manually advanced. On Master recordings, the track would almost always advance, but at least 80% of the time the next track would be extremely distorted until manually restarted. These problems not only ruined immersion, but also required me to sit by my computer. Although pretty minor, there was also a split-second of crackle or distortion when every new track began. (Without going into details, my experience with Tidal support was so infuriating that I will likely switch back to Spotify if/when they institute a lossless service as rumored.)

In Tidal settings, I had the sound output set to Speakers (Schiit Eitr). However, Tidal sometimes changed the setting--with no input from me--to System Default. And I've now realized when Tidal is set to System Default, it plays perfectly: track advancement is fine, there is no distortion on new Master tracks, there is no momentary crackle when a new track starts. The sound quality appears to be the same (though it's hard to A/B it since the volume on System Default is a little lower than the Schiit Eitr setting even though my PC output is set to 100%; if the volume is set to 10 o'clock on my Valhalla 2 with the Schiit Eitr setting it needs to be advanced to roughly 11 o'clock for the System Default output to match).

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Am I losing anything in SQ by leaving the Tidal setting on System Default? Is there any change I could make in the Eitr Windows 10 properties to eliminate the problem? Thanks in advance.
I got my Eitr in July, it was most likely from the first batch. I use it with Modi Multibit. I observed the first problem (not advancing the track) before Eitr with different DACs. But now I have exactly the same problem as your second one (distorted tracks on Masters). I also use Tidal app on Windows 10. The second problem started only recently, I believe, when they updated their app to have a separate choice in settings for Masters (before that the highest quality was HiFi but Masters were part of it and worked anyway).

I blame both problems on the Tidal app because the first problem happened before with various DACs and now it is actually rare for me. As for the second, Masters were fine before with the same setup. And I have no problems playing 24bit tracks from other programs like JRiver with ASIO or WASAPI. I hope Tidal will fix their app soon.

If anyone else has similar issues please chime in.
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 4:18 PM Post #369 of 1,103

JoeKickass

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hmm not sure where else to post (but since the Eitr is all about cleaning up the signal)
does anyone know where I can find a post where someone uses a sensor of sort to show how has managed to clean up the RFI/EMI from his system (cables).
I didn't see the post, but you can do the same thing with an un-shielded 3.5mm cable.

Plug it into an amplified speakers or headphones and crank up the volume and you have yourself an RF Noise detector!
Test it by moving the 3.5mm cable close to power cables, or your cellphone when you are making a call.

(Just be careful, if you touch the bare contact on the other end of the cable you can get a loud *bzzzz*)
 
Nov 17, 2017 at 5:35 PM Post #370 of 1,103

Marlowe

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I got my Eitr in July, it was most likely from the first batch. I use it with Modi Multibit. I observed the first problem (not advancing the track) before Eitr with different DACs. But now I have exactly the same problem as your second one (distorted tracks on Masters). I also use Tidal app on Windows 10. The second problem started only recently, I believe, when they updated their app to have a separate choice in settings for Masters (before that the highest quality was HiFi but Masters were part of it and worked anyway).

I blame both problems on the Tidal app because the first problem happened before with various DACs and now it is actually rare for me. As for the second, Masters were fine before with the same setup. And I have no problems playing 24bit tracks from other programs like JRiver with ASIO or WASAPI. I hope Tidal will fix their app soon.

If anyone else has similar issues please chime in.

Glad to see I am not crazy. My only solution ATM is to use the System Default setting for sound output in Tidal options. This seems to have the same SQ (though in switching from one to the other, the Eitr output setting sometimes appears to sound a tiny bit better, but this may be my imagination or a volume matching problem) and I never get the distortion problem in Masters (over the last few days at least). Although the app still refuses to advance a track on occasion, it is rare with this setting (well under 5% of the time opposed to at least 15-20% with the output set to Eitr).

FWIW, I am pretty sure (but could be wrong) that the separate Tidal quality settings for HiFi and Masters was instituted before i got the Eitr in mid-August. The worst problems with the output set to Eitr have always been with Master recording, though the exact problem has changed. Initially, tracks played fine and would advance on Master recordings, but on advancing, it would skip a track, i.e., it would play track one of an album and then automatically play track 3, then track 5, etc. (It was at this point that I contacted Tidal support, who were so unhelpful and snippy that I am itching for a viable alternative). However, that problem went away after a few weeks, never to recur. Instead, the tracks advanced correctly, but most of the time playback would be distorted until manually restarted.

UPDATE: This seems almost certainly to be an Eitr problem, or at least a problem in how the Eitr interacts with the Tidal app.. I played two Master albums that gave me problems with the Eitr; one on the Fulla 2, one with the wireless Logitech G933 gaming headset. (The G933 is a recent purchase that I am almost certain to return. It works with a USB dongle transmitter and I got it to see if its virtual 7.1 sound was effective with games. It really isn't and its SQ, though probably more than adequate for gamers who have never heard a decent headphone, is a joke compared to every other can and IEM I have.) With the Tidal sound output set to the respective USB device, every Master track played perfectly without any distortion. The tracks all advanced automatically with the G933, though 25% of the tracks (two of eight) would not advance with the Fulla 2 but buffered until manually advanced. This is a very small sample, but given that almost every Master track will distort until restarted manually with output set to the Eitr it is very suggestive.
 
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Nov 19, 2017 at 6:13 AM Post #371 of 1,103

wilflare

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I didn't see the post, but you can do the same thing with an un-shielded 3.5mm cable.

Plug it into an amplified speakers or headphones and crank up the volume and you have yourself an RF Noise detector!
Test it by moving the 3.5mm cable close to power cables, or your cellphone when you are making a call.

(Just be careful, if you touch the bare contact on the other end of the cable you can get a loud *bzzzz*)

that sounds really dangerous :O haha but hmm
 
Nov 19, 2017 at 1:01 PM Post #373 of 1,103

Puma Cat

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Glad to see I am not crazy. My only solution ATM is to use the System Default setting for sound output in Tidal options. This seems to have the same SQ (though in switching from one to the other, the Eitr output setting sometimes appears to sound a tiny bit better, but this may be my imagination or a volume matching problem) and I never get the distortion problem in Masters (over the last few days at least). Although the app still refuses to advance a track on occasion, it is rare with this setting (well under 5% of the time opposed to at least 15-20% with the output set to Eitr).

FWIW, I am pretty sure (but could be wrong) that the separate Tidal quality settings for HiFi and Masters was instituted before i got the Eitr in mid-August. The worst problems with the output set to Eitr have always been with Master recording, though the exact problem has changed. Initially, tracks played fine and would advance on Master recordings, but on advancing, it would skip a track, i.e., it would play track one of an album and then automatically play track 3, then track 5, etc. (It was at this point that I contacted Tidal support, who were so unhelpful and snippy that I am itching for a viable alternative). However, that problem went away after a few weeks, never to recur. Instead, the tracks advanced correctly, but most of the time playback would be distorted until manually restarted.

UPDATE: This seems almost certainly to be an Eitr problem, or at least a problem in how the Eitr interacts with the Tidal app.. I played two Master albums that gave me problems with the Eitr; one on the Fulla 2, one with the wireless Logitech G933 gaming headset. (The G933 is a recent purchase that I am almost certain to return. It works with a USB dongle transmitter and I got it to see if its virtual 7.1 sound was effective with games. It really isn't and its SQ, though probably more than adequate for gamers who have never heard a decent headphone, is a joke compared to every other can and IEM I have.) With the Tidal sound output set to the respective USB device, every Master track played perfectly without any distortion. The tracks all advanced automatically with the G933, though 25% of the tracks (two of eight) would not advance with the Fulla 2 but buffered until manually advanced. This is a very small sample, but given that almost every Master track will distort until restarted manually with output set to the Eitr it is very suggestive.
Its unfortunate that you're having issues with MQA and (possibly) Eitr, but my guess is the problems may be due to an interaction between Tidal/Eitr. Given that Schiit very clearly states their products do not support MQA, one can't blame Schiit for not providing functionality that they explicitly state they do not provide.
 
Nov 19, 2017 at 2:15 PM Post #374 of 1,103

Marlowe

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Its unfortunate that you're having issues with MQA and (possibly) Eitr, but my guess is the problems may be due to an interaction between Tidal/Eitr. Given that Schiit very clearly states their products do not support MQA, one can't blame Schiit for not providing functionality that they explicitly state they do not provide.

First, I explicitly noted that the problem may be how the Eitr interacts with the Tidal app. Second, I take some issue with your second statement. I never cast any blame on Schiit as you imply, just trying to figure out the problem. Nor do I think that I am asking Eitr or Mimby to perform tasks they explicitly do not. I'm aware that Schiit products intentionally do not decode MQA and I am not asking them to. I have the Tidal app set to allow the app software to decode MQA, so only an already decoded stereo signal is being sent to Eitr. Besides, when I set the Tidal App sound output to System Default (which plays Master tracks with no distortion) it is nonetheless still sending the signal through Eitr (which is the system default device) to Mimby, Valhalla 2 and then my headphones. I wouldn't be hearing anything otherwise.
 
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Nov 24, 2017 at 12:13 PM Post #375 of 1,103

Marlowe

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I got my Eitr in July, it was most likely from the first batch. I use it with Modi Multibit. ... But now I have exactly the same problem as your second one (distorted tracks on Masters). I also use Tidal app on Windows 10. ... I hope Tidal will fix their app soon.

Tidal updated their Windows 10 app yesterday (Thanksgiving Day). I've played a couple of Masters albums since with the sound output set to Schiit Eitr (but MQA decoding done by the Tidal app) and they've played perfectly. Small sample, but fingers crossed.
 

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