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Schiit Bifrost Uber Analog Upgrade

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  1. bleudeciel16
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're using USB, that's 100% digital.  Meaning port won't matter.  Like if 100 people download an mp3 from a website, and we all run a checksum on it, we'd get the same hash because we have the EXACT digital copy of the song.  Not one single bit would differ between our copies of the file.  Same way digital music transfer works.
     
    Now if you had five of the same soundcards all in different PCI slots, and use analog output to your amp, then yes, that could sound different.  One card could be closer to your video card.  One card could be on a different power rail that's cleaner.  Analog signals are susceptible to noise.
     
    It's like how digital TV works or it doesn't.  If it's working, you're getting the exact picture everyone else is.  (granted your TV will render the colors, brightness, hue, etc differently, but the source image is digitally identical to the version everyone else is receiving because it's digital)
     
    Reminds me of the fools who spend $1500 on a 6' HDMI cable.  Unless you're running it across your house in the wall along-side your mains wiring, there's zero benefit to getting a crazy shielded cable.  It's a digital signal.  It gets there in-tact, or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, your run is too long or too noisy, in which case you'd actually benefit from a better cable.  But in most cases, it's moot.  Snake oil is a common theme in theseparts!  Makes me want to buy two top end TV's, put them side-by-side, use a $3 monoprice 3 foot HDMI cable on one TV, and a $1500 snake oil HDMI cable on the other, and see if anyone can ACTUALLY tell a difference.  Does digital ever get noise?  Yes.  In the form of lost packets during transmission.  What would it look like for a TV?  Have you seen how TV gets all blocky when a cloud goes over your house and you have satellite TV?  That.  That's what it looks like.  Same with your music.  It works or it doesn't.  I'm 99.9999% sure your sound difference based on usb port is in your head.
     
  2. Traum
    Those 6N1P are the Valhalla stock tubes, right? I didn't know Schiit sells them separately from the rest of the Valhalla set. Or did you just get the whole Valhalla set and left the 6N6P unused?
     
  3. hodgjy
     
    Ignore the antagonists.  Some people here just have an agenda that doesn't include enjoyment, collegiality, and music.  
     
    I'm a skeptic about many things in the audiophile world, but there absolutely is a difference in sound between USB implementations.  Sometimes, it's not even subtle.  Coax and optical have been around for a long time, so designers and manufacturers have worked out many of the kinks.  On the other hand, many manufacturers (Schiit included), didn't take USB seriously until recently and are now playing catch up.
     
    And, there's nothing "Universal" about the "Universal" in Universal Serial Bus.  That protocol has always been, and will continue to be, a big headache for designers, programmers, and manufacturers.  This is because it can do so many things, whereas coax and optical have one one job each--move sound signals.
     
  4. StanD
    Some people respond using the wrong choice of words that can compromise their message. Others don't like the message and will then tell us not to look.
     
  5. Byrnie
    This is a discussion and I don't think anyone here is antagonizing mrscotchguy.  I have to side with bleudeciel16, my knowledge-set of USB is the same as his.  Now of course I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact, most likely is my lack of knowledge of the implementation itself but again I don't see anyone antagonizing each other.
     
    Also here's a cheer for Shure SRH1540 brothers! [​IMG]
     
  6. hodgjy
     
    [​IMG]
     
    P.S.  You were not who I was referring to.  I rather enjoy reading your diverse opinions on our diverse topics.
     
  7. bleudeciel16

    Stock are the GE's. They're the same as the smaller tubes that come with the valhalla set, but back when I got my bifrost, I was able to get them as an extra set without the big tubes
     
  8. kstuart
    In regards to the "Bits are bits, so everything digital sounds exactly the same" argument from 1982, please read the following before continuing to push that argument:
     
    http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-1-what-digital
     
    and then part two:
     
    http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits
     
    (a relatively easy to understand discussion about how electrons affect the bits.)
     
  9. BobJS
     
    It would be great to see an explanation like the one above (explaining how differences in implementation can effect SQ over digital USB transmission) for the ever-recurring cable debate (I can HEAR the difference in my super duper silver litz cable vs  the stock one)
     
  10. StanD
    Firstly this is the year 2014, the old issues of noise, etc. have long since dealt with and are no longer at such high levels as once was. Any current product suffering from such problems would be the result of poor design, not the case with the Bifrost. The SNR of the Bifrost is so low that these articles lack relevance with the discussion revolving around the Bifrost. None of this has anything to do with how USB is going to affect the mentioned soundstage or tonal qualitites. Data errors means no audio or glitches. IMO, you might consider to stop using these articles as a point of reference.
     
  11. bleudeciel16
     
    this.
     
    plus, those articles even state that if there's an issue, it's with the receiver.  in the current discussion, the receiver is the control.  the usb port is the variable.  renders the articles moot.
     
    would be interesting to break out an FPGA and a higher end ADC and log the digital values into a CSV.  I'd probably use my scope to find the noise floor so that I could strategically choose a good trigger level for when to start logging.  run 10 samples of the same song, then find the standard deviation.  then try a different usb port and compare the difference.  I have a sneaking suspicion I won't find any difference.
     
  12. StanD
    I find it less than ammusing when people claim that their USB port affects the soundstage or timbre. Time to call up, "The Digital Myth Busters."
     
  13. Byrnie
    Even with noise the overall sound signature of the DAC should be the same per USB implementation but we should probably get back to topic haha.
     
  14. bluesound
    Can I ask your perspective on the Schiit Bitfrost Uber DAC vs Wyred 4 Sound DAC1, 2, and Eastern Electric Mini Plus?  The Schiit is of course much less expensive than those compared.  Are they in the same league?  Is there something in the Schiit line more comparable? My 2 channel system is WFS 250w per, Odyssey tube pre-amp,  some Flac files, streaming MOG mostly, no headphones so far. Thanks for any ideas.
     
  15. StanD
    The question is, since the Bifrost has a flat FR and distortion levels far below what we can perceive and we really can't tell any differences at the higher bit rates and resolutions, do you need anything better? Many DACs that cost far more do not even have specs that are as good. If given a true ABX blind test (to be discussed elsewhere) how many of the those that profess to hear all sorts of nuances would fail to do so under a proper test under proper conditions. IMO, none of them could do it. This is a funny hobby, with all sorts of personalities hearing all sorts of things, imagined and otherwise. YMMV.
     
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