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Schiit Bifrost Multibit A/B Test Video

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by watchnerd, Jan 20, 2016.
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  1. watchnerd
     
    It's the filter.  Schiit said at one point that the megacomboburrito filter "is the DAC".
     
    Presumably one could implement the filter on DS DAC, too.  Or in a DSP.
     
  2. TiborM
    For some people it's hard to believe that a better usb cable, with better shielding and higher quality wire, will make a difference. Weird.
    But let's talk about the video for a minute.
    1. Usb cable he is using is really a piece of... .
    2. Those small L RCA pieces connected to dac are probably degrading the sound quality.
    3. So does the switching device.
    4. When you listen to music, do you usually listen to it in few seconds intervals? No.

    Quick a/b switching will give you nothing, when you're looking for inner details. IMHO & YMMV

    Anyone unhappy with what I've just said?
     
    ColtMrFire, landroni and pavement714 like this.
  3. Ruben123

    Hmyes
     
  4. sheldaze
    I think you're going to have a problem with the Bifrost (does not matter which one, I have owned and heard all three - original, Uber, 4490) when coming from Mojo.
     
    I had the opportunity just this past Saturday to compare, but did not know a comparison was asked for, against the Bifrost Multibit. I owned it too, but too long ago to draw any useful conclusion. I will try at the next meet to compare.
     
  5. sheldaze
    Does no one have issue with the speed that he switched between the two setups?
     
    I once tried to compare a Grace Design m9XX against a Gungnir Multibit. It was very, very, very hard to do - they both played music at pretty much the same level (I could not hear a difference in level) and with the same sonic character. It took me around 15-30 minutes of back and forth to pick out anything that I could call a difference between these two DACs, in direct A-B. I have only the highest respect for people who do this professionally, and do not think I'd be able to pick out anything less than errors of construction (electrical noise, data packets missing, etc.) in doing the comparison that is shown in the video.
     
  6. RRod
     
    It's a reviewer holding a piece of equipment up to a standard of testing that suffices for him to be comfortable in a diagnosis of 'worth it' or 'not worth it'. That's all. One side of the aisle finds his results unsurprising and the other doesn't, and each side would have him do things in a way more in line with their own thinking (quick-switched DBT on one side, several-week sighted grokking sessions on the other).
     
    sheldaze likes this.
  7. prot
    Or maybe it took you 30 minutes to convince yourself that differences still exist in spite of hearing none :)
     
    muza_1 likes this.
  8. catspaw
    I bought the bimby after having it with me for 4 days (the store i bought it from allows borrowing it and testing before purchase).
    I was not sure If I would hear any difference from my Fiio E17 or the Logitech Z-5500 control unit (as dac).
     
    I heard many things differently (not massively better, just more of them), so I kept it. Its obviously just my experience so, take it as you want.
     
    The things I used was gaming and movies (I dont listen to music that much), and I did get a sound that felt more real to me, but I did not AB at all.
     
  9. madwolfa
     
    It was due to crappy analog brickwall filters (or no filters at all), not the R2R DAC technology itself...
     
  10. watchnerd
     
    Or to put it differently, the chip tech didn't matter.
     
    RRod likes this.
  11. shortyg83
    I don't think it is hard to believe that USB cable with better shielding makes a difference. But in most cases it is in fact impossible.
    USB is digital. The signal is either there or it isn't there. If you are getting drop outs and artifacts maybe change the cable. Otherwise there would be no difference at all, since it is impossible.
     
  12. landroni

    Not quite. Even if the full bit stream data passes through intact to the DAC (which is very plausible), the electrical signal in the USB cable will likely capture a boatload of high-freq noise picked up from the computer and in route (if it has poor shielding), and then pass it downstream the audio chain to the DAC and ultimately to the transducers, coloring the analogue sound one way or another. (Galvanic isolation for USB seems to be very expensive, so very few products do it unless you go north of $1.5-2K for USB purifiers.)
     
    And while USB is indeed digital, the digital process of transmitting the bits is itself at heart an analogue process. So the digital data transmissions via USB will also generate analogue noise (caused by rapid switching of relatively large voltages), especially if the connectors aren't perfectly aligned (e.g. because of oxidation or dirt decreasing the contact area, thus increasing the resistance of the connection). So yes, there are mechanisms that can explain differing sonic performances of two USB cables, and even two cables of the exact same model, even if the bit stream delivery is itself bit-perfect...
     
    User @Torq has a nice discussion of these things in this thread:
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2220#post_12453511
     
    pavement714 likes this.
  13. castleofargh Contributor
    bits are bits is an oversimplification because it's missing the USB used as a 5V source part, ground design choices, and the digital to analog part that can pass on, or be impacted by noise. doesn't mean that I subscribe to the USB paranoia though.  because what matters is the magnitude of things, not that they exist. noises and distortions and phase shifts exist and happen everywhere in the sound system. how often will a crappy DAC and poorly made computer ruin the signal as much as the very best headphone? almost never.
    quantifying things is the best way to realize when we're just being silly.
     
    now does this have anything to do with R2R vs DS? like is there one design that forces to isolate better? have a better grounding design or something?
     
    gregorio and sonitus mirus like this.
  14. catspaw
    And thats why I always go Optical...
     
  15. landroni

    Quantifying the magnitude is one thing. Determining how the human brain would perceive the differences is entirely a different matter, and emitting a subjective assessment out of thin air seems like a very silly thing, indeed. Overall, it's pretty hard to subscribe to the "no diff in transports" paranoia... And given the prevailing passive-aggressive behaviors in these corners (even apparently when someone simply presents some factual elements), it's no wonder that competent and open-minded engineers eschew these corners with incredible enthusiasm...
     
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