[MarkF786]

To add a different spin on Lyr 3 vs Jotunheim:

I'm driving both amps from the Bifrost MB to the Saga to the two amps. When I then volume match them using a multi-meter, and switch between them (which granted, is a manual process of unplugging my headphones from one, and plugging them into the other - which only take a couple seconds) I can't hear a difference. I repeated the same test with the Valhalla 2 (using a set of headphones with appropriate impedance, in this case HD800S) and again couldn't hear a difference.

I've been an "audiophile" since the mid-80s, and back then I believed I could even hear the difference when I colored my CD edges with a green marker (for anyone who wasn't around for that fad, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bewaring-of-the-green/ which some people still believe works). Nowadays, I tend to be more aware of the psychological bias that goes into hearing these differences. I'm certainly open to the possibility that some people have more discerning ears (though it seems most scientific evidence points to the contrary).

That's not to say that if I listen to a piece of gear over time, I believe I hear a difference, but it quickly goes away if I do a direct A-B comparison with volume precisely matched. And it doesn't stop me from trying new gear, in hopes of finding something "better".

Hearing differences between headphones, IEMs, speakers, etc - that's obviously an easy feat.

 

[sifulee]

Hey Schiit

Are you guys having any Black Friday or Cyber Monday sales?

 

[nerone]

Hey Schiit

Are you guys having any Black Friday or Cyber Monday sales?

Don’t count on that. I guess this is the only certain thing @Jason Stoddard is never gonna change his mind about.

 

[sifulee]

Never say never

 

[adydula]

The only sale per say are in the "deals" section of Schitt's website...B-stock and there are the usual end of life sales....

Thats it..

Alex

 

[JerryLeeds]

Question:

Is the SQ the same between the balanced and unbalanced outputs? I mean other than the power/loudness.

Has anyone heard a difference between the two outputs?

Thanks

 

[nerone]

I didn’t test both in the same setup, but in my experience the difference is negligible.
I also read the same impressions in other places.

 

[JerryLeeds]

Thks .... RCA will go to an SMSL SP200 THX amp and the XLR will go to a liquid platinum hybrid tube amp

 

[ohcrapgorillas]

Question:

Is the SQ the same between the balanced and unbalanced outputs? I mean other than the power/loudness.

Has anyone heard a difference between the two outputs?

Thanks

I'm no engineer, so I'm quoting them secondhand, but I recall reading that Schiit had "gimped" the SE outputs of Gungnir and Yggdrasil, so they didn't perform as well as the balanced outputs. With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.

 

[theveterans]

With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.

Bifrost 2's output stage is opamp based. Can't really see how they would "gimp" it given that it's not a discrete output stage where careful implementations are needed for it to sound identical to balanced and single ended output. Unless Schiit deliberately use different opamp chip for SE and balanced out that is

 

[Jason Stoddard]

I'm no engineer, so I'm quoting them secondhand, but I recall reading that Schiit had "gimped" the SE outputs of Gungnir and Yggdrasil, so they didn't perform as well as the balanced outputs. With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.

If you go back to the chapters that explain the products, here's what we said: Yggdrasil and Gungnir have summed single-ended outputs to retain the benefits of their hardware-balanced configuration (2 DACs per channel). Bifrost does not need summed outputs SE outputs, because it is not hardware balanced (a significantly less expensive approach).

Due to this summing, the SE outputs measure differently, but if you go through all the nervosa where people tried balanced out from Gungnir and Yggdrasil though transformers, or used only a single phase, the results were inferior (or at least not superior) to summing.

We didn't add the summing in to "gimp" the output. We added it to improve the output.

Believe me, at the cost of producing Yggdrasil and Gungnir, if we didn't need to add it, we wouldn't have. So, seriously, let's stop this talk of "gimping." Repeating hearsay is never good. Especially when it's an opinion based on a misconception.

 

[ohcrapgorillas]

If you go back to the chapters that explain the products, here's what we said: Yggdrasil and Gungnir have summed single-ended outputs to retain the benefits of their hardware-balanced configuration (2 DACs per channel). Bifrost does not need summed outputs SE outputs, because it is not hardware balanced (a significantly less expensive approach).

Due to this summing, the SE outputs measure differently, but if you go through all the nervosa where people tried balanced out from Gungnir and Yggdrasil though transformers, or used only a single phase, the results were inferior (or at least not superior) to summing.

We didn't add the summing in to "gimp" the output. We added it to improve the output.

Believe me, at the cost of producing Yggdrasil and Gungnir, if we didn't need to add it, we wouldn't have. So, seriously, let's stop this talk of "gimping." Repeating hearsay is never good. Especially when it's an opinion based on a misconception.

That all makes sense, thanks for clearing this up and my apologies for getting it so wrong. Bifrost 2 is seriously an excellent DAC and y'all have done amazing work.

 

[dglow]

I have a Yggdrasil, and suspect a good deal of the perceived inferiority of the SE outputs lies in their levels being so much lower than the balanced outs. This can be compensated for, of course, but we're talking about perception.

Yggy's balanced output is very hot. It's also very, very delicious.

 

[adydula]

No real world discernable difference in SQ.....

Alex

 

[axlic0]

Should Bitrost 2 start to support 384/24 bit now?