same headphone..same sound?
Mar 4, 2006 at 4:00 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

1911

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for those that have been fortunate to go to meets...do you find that the same brand headphone sounds the same as yours per say? ie all 650s come from the factory sounding the same..all grado rs-1 sound the same...or have you found variations between the same cans? are some manufacturers more closely matched than others?
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 4:20 AM Post #2 of 14

Firam

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I have no experience in that but I would assume that there are some manufacturing differences.
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 4:29 AM Post #3 of 14

NotJeffBuckley

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Often significant variations exist between drivers within any given batch. Manufacturers have tolerences of difference from the ideal in order to operate within fiscal limitations; that is, they can't throw everything not precisely to spec away, because they'd be throwing away the vast majority of their products. As such, they employ driver matching, a process which seeks to align the sound reproduction capabilities of a given driver in the batch with another (whether from that batch or not).

For lower end headphones, they usually only match at one or two points (often 1000hz, to align the upper midrange, both areas which the human ear can detect); for medium level cans, this is done at a few different points (usually 1000 and multiples thereof), and for the flagships and other expensive cans you can expect relatively close full range matching. Grado promises 1dB to 0.05dB deviation, Sennheiser promises 3dB on the HD580 and 1dB on the HD600 and HD650.

In short, manufacturers' tolerances adequately explain difference between headphones of the same brand and model.
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 6:36 AM Post #4 of 14

Anarchy965

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley
Often significant variations exist between drivers within any given batch. Manufacturers have tolerences of difference from the ideal in order to operate within fiscal limitations; that is, they can't throw everything not precisely to spec away, because they'd be throwing away the vast majority of their products. As such, they employ driver matching, a process which seeks to align the sound reproduction capabilities of a given driver in the batch with another (whether from that batch or not).

For lower end headphones, they usually only match at one or two points (often 1000hz, to align the upper midrange, both areas which the human ear can detect); for medium level cans, this is done at a few different points (usually 1000 and multiples thereof), and for the flagships and other expensive cans you can expect relatively close full range matching. Grado promises 1dB to 0.05dB deviation, Sennheiser promises 3dB on the HD580 and 1dB on the HD600 and HD650.

In short, manufacturers' tolerances adequately explain difference between headphones of the same brand and model.



Boy that pretty much ends this thread
etysmile.gif
. I mean what else is there to say...BUMP
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 6:46 AM Post #5 of 14

kramer5150

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Meets are far from adequate venue for critical listening sessions... unless the ambient noise is unusually silent. So... no I have not been able to detect a difference at a meet.

Garrett
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 1:36 PM Post #6 of 14

NotJeffBuckley

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchy965
Boy that pretty much ends this thread
etysmile.gif
. I mean what else is there to say...BUMP



You can call me the Answerater
evil_smiley.gif


This has always been a topic of interest for me, given the typical credence burn-in recieves when people listen to two headphones of the same model that sound slightly different (one new, and one old) - they usually say to themselves, after having been exposed to talk of the phenomenon of burn-in, that the sonic differences are an obvious result of burn-in and it's proof that it occurs. However, that's not the case at all, for the simple reasons I've stated above. It's something to keep in mind as well when deciding what to buy, as more closely matched drivers are inevitably going to sound more pleasing to the ear!

The SR-225 uses the same driver as the SR-125, but employs 0.05dB closer driver matching and has better airflow in the chamber.

The HD600 uses the same drivers as the HD580, but employs (substantially) closer driver matching and supposedly has a slightly differently tuned enclosure (not sure how much I buy that, to be honest; it'd have to be awfully minute, as you can open it up and measure it yourself and it looks/measures awfully similar).
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 2:08 PM Post #7 of 14

razer

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Wonder how's this done for the L3000? How closely are they matched?
confused.gif
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 10:30 PM Post #8 of 14

NotJeffBuckley

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Quote:

Originally Posted by razer
Wonder how's this done for the L3000? How closely are they matched?
confused.gif



No idea. However, the A900 are very poorly matched and often show pretty big discrepencies between channels, mostly in the 3000hz+ range (and especially in the 9000+ range, where the difference can be over 6dB between the two drivers). They're generally tightly matched in the bass and lower mids, though.

Edit: None of which makes them bad headphones or remotely displeasing to listen to, by the way, but could go some way in describing the different impressions people get of them when they buy a pair? I know I really dig mine, and I don't sit around looking at a frequency plot all day weeping, just listen to the music and enjoy.
 
Mar 4, 2006 at 11:26 PM Post #9 of 14

1911

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yup, i knew about the driver matching before..i should clarify my question to be...is the tolerances between different sets of drivers so significant that someone could love one pair of 650's and not like another pair of 650s or is the sound pretty close( so that there is a "house sound"). for those who have sampled multiple cans of the same model.
 
Mar 5, 2006 at 12:16 AM Post #10 of 14

needmoretoys

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I just tested both my newest HD590 and DT880 a few days ago and both were within 1 dB left to right. I tested at 125, 1K and 8K Hz. I used a digital SPL meter with a flat piece of heavy cardboard over the end so that it seals against the eacpad. I used the Denon test CD pink noise test. Sometimes the left was slightly higher and sometimes the right, so I think that my NAD C542 and Gilmore GS-1 are close L to R.
 
Mar 5, 2006 at 12:59 AM Post #11 of 14

NotJeffBuckley

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 1911
yup, i knew about the driver matching before..i should clarify my question to be...is the tolerances between different sets of drivers so significant that someone could love one pair of 650's and not like another pair of 650s or is the sound pretty close( so that there is a "house sound"). for those who have sampled multiple cans of the same model.


The sound signature of each will be very similar, and each headphone will have the same "house sound," especially in the more expensive models where more expensive processes are used to make the drivers and transducers. The differences are relatively small, but enough to convince people of burn-in effects erroneously. Notice that this is not an attack on the phenomemon of burn-in, but rather a sensical refutation of this particular affirmation of it.
 
Mar 5, 2006 at 3:49 AM Post #12 of 14

lini

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NJB: Interestingly enough, I've noticed quite a bit of channel deviation in several review measurements especially with Grados. So I actually wonder about how much truth is in those matching claims. On the other hand, could be a positioning issue, too...

1911: It surely depends on the manufacturer and model as well as the timeframe. But for example, I have a first generation K240S (micro jack on the phone itself, not mini-xlr) and I've compared this fully burnt-in one to a freshly out of the box second generation K240S (mini-xlr on the phone) I bought about two years later: miniscule differences at best - and I'd even exspect completely identical sound after burn-in...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini
 
Mar 6, 2006 at 12:11 AM Post #14 of 14

DevilDog

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A friend of mine had 3 SR-225s at one time. (Don't ask why) He made sure they were all burned in. He swore they had different signatures. I was a skeptic, this was before I found Head-Fi. I thought there was no way they could be told apart. I listened to them. They were all different, clearly so. They were all good but they were different.
He kept the best of the three and they are great. I sometimes wonder when I recommend the SR-225s if maybe his pair isn't a notch or two above the norm.
 

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