SA5000 vs Proline 750

[StanleyBuchanan]

A few caveats...

SA5000 are broken in and recabled (black dragon)

Proline 750 has about 20 hours on it.

I have very limited headphone experience and may not be describing my impressions properly.

SA5000 seem much more detailed, much more open with greater fullness, much more enjoyable to listen to. There is a distinct seperation between the instruments and vocals, much greater soundstage. Vocals stand out and instruments have a strong punch. Bright but somewhat thin, they feel much more lively.

The 750 are muddy and boring. The soundstage is very distinct with a greater feeling of channel separation, which is hard to reconcile with the muddy runtogether impression except to say that individual intsruments/vocals just plain irritate/fatigue one ear or the other. These are not bright headphones by any account. The details are there, warm and full, but they are not enjoyable because they run together and are very harsh.


I'm looking forward to seeing how the 750 evolve with breakin, and am now curious about how the open 2500 would sound.



Anyone want to contribute a more experienced viewpoint?

 

[MaZa]

Just let them burn in, according to some its a very long process with Proline 750. Also experiment with the positioning of the headphones on your head. The sound changes dramatically.

 

[jpelg]

1. Burn in the Prolines for 200hrs, then try again.
2. The MicroDAC is not the most resolving source, imo.

 

[wovenhand]

I'm a previous owner of the 2500 and your impressions of the 750 are basically identical to those of my 2500's. Even though the 2500's are open cans, they feel & sound like a closed one. And yeah, very fatiguing and just plain painful and irritating to listen to. After around 250 hours of burn-in I gave up and sold them.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyBuchanan /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 750 are muddy and boring. The soundstage is very distinct with a greater feeling of channel separation, which is hard to reconcile with the muddy runtogether impression except to say that individual intsruments/vocals just plain irritate/fatigue one ear or the other. These are not bright headphones by any account. The details are there, warm and full, but they are not enjoyable because they run together and are very harsh. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 750 evolve with breakin, and am now curious about how the open 2500 would sound. Anyone want to contribute a more experienced viewpoint?

Yep, they had that unique combination of muddiness and brightness at the same time. Weird cans, but looks like that works for some people here.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep, they had that unique combination of muddiness and brightness at the same time. Weird cans, but looks like that works for some people here.

The only time that I think my 2500 are muddy is when the music has parts that are simple distorted itself. Few headphones can actually handle this type of music well (much of modern music comes distorted deliberately). The Ultrasone Edition 9s are one of those that can handled anything I have found out. The Prolines are very nice with most music.

ATH-W5000s do very well also with this kind of music.

 

[Icarium]

Given that I think Black Dragon + Qualias is a winning combo and the similarity between the SA5000 to the Qualias, I would think that for the qualities you listed your SA5000s will be tough to beat.

 

[StanleyBuchanan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. Burn in the Prolines for 200hrs, then try again. 2. The MicroDAC is not the most resolving source, imo.

Actually I'm using a modded x-fi right now as the source..

I'll report back as burn in progesses...

 

[pageman99]

20 hours are nowhere near enough, in my experience.

I have the 2500's aand the 750's. The 2500's have over 500 hours on them and sound just fine, thank you.

The 750's probably have around 150 hours on them, and yes they are somewhat muddy and somewhat harsh, still. By coincidence I just had the 750's on now as I was listening to Beegie Adair for the first time on my system. Nicely recorded stuff light jazz, with accoustic bass and a prominent piano leading the way.

Anyhow, with this material, it is obvious to me that the 750's are well on the way to smoothing out. Maybe another 50-100 hours. Time will tell.

BTW, I wish impatient folks, or folks with limited experience, or limited equipment, would quit trashing headphones, just for the sake of trashing them.

Lets show some restraint. Just because a phone doesn't suit your system or ears doesn't mean it's a bad phone. It's just not for you, that's all. And all input is welcome, as far as I'm concerned, but lets keep our sense of perspective.

And I'm not referring to the OP here. He's stated his experience so far and is willing to give the phones a chance. And I thank him for his input.

And yes, I like the Ultrasones. At the moment, I'm selling some stuff to try the Edition 9's. I think they might be a great value. I listened to tkam's L3000's (thanks Todd) for a fair amount of time at a small get together and while I think the L3000's might be better than the edition 9's, I'm not so sure they would be worth twice the price.

I've found the Ultrasone 2500's to be the most emotionally involving phones I've ever listened to. I could wish for a bit more refinement, but I have the Senn 650's for that. Interestingly, I find that I have to force myself to reach for the Senn's, then I soon put them down (oddly I feel guilty at times when I do this). I then slip on the 2500's and smile away.

I read a lot, and like to listen to music at the same time. I can't do this with the Ultrasones. My foot begins to tap and I lose my place in the book. Oh well I guess there are worse things. But then all this is just me.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyBuchanan /img/forum/go_quote.gif SA5000 seem much more detailed, much more open with greater fullness...

This is has been my experience, though I'd also say the SA5K is bright, strangely treble tuned and unlistenable. I basically like few phones less (and Sony populates those ranks). While I happen to be fond of Ultrasones likely (and when giving them enough current - the WA5 opened my "eyes"), there are certainly other phones more detailed and full. Take a look at AKG or Senn.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pageman99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've found the Ultrasone 2500's to be the most emotionally involving phones I've ever listened to. I could wish for a bit more refinement, but I have the Senn 650's for that. Interestingly, I find that I have to force myself to reach for the Senn's, then I soon put them down (oddly I feel guilty at times when I do this). I then slip on the 2500's and smile away.

When you get around to it go get yourself the UE9s. You already have a nice stable but this thoroughbred would add nicely to it for an emotionally involving headphone.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is has been my experience, though I'd also say the SA5K is bright, strangely treble tuned and unlistenable. I basically like few phones less (and Sony populates those ranks). While I happen to be fond of Ultrasones likely (and when giving them enough current - the WA5 opened my "eyes"), there are certainly other phones more detailed and full. Take a look at AKG or Senn.

Which AKG or Senn?

The K701 and HD650 are not more detailed than the SA5000.

 

[SK138]

This kind of statment makes my wallet run away from me

Where did I put that wallet now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Given that I think Black Dragon + Qualias is a winning combo and the similarity between the SA5000 to the Qualias, I would think that for the qualities you listed your SA5000s will be tough to beat.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which AKG or Senn? The K701 and HD650 are not more detailed than the SA5000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I happen to be fond of Ultrasones likely (and when giving them enough current - the WA5 opened my "eyes"), there are certainly other phones more detailed and full. Take a look at AKG or Senn.

I was referring to the Ultrasones, however on the SA5K/detail front I happen to agree with this...
Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I might have said it before, but if I am being extremely brutal, the SA5K's are high end headphones for people who have no real concept of what high end audio means. They have top-end detail in bags, but they also have a very consumer tuning which renders them uncouth and unable to capture the nuances of a performance as expressed by headphones such as the HD650, ATH-W2002 and DT880. So all you get is effectively a sticky-out, information overload top, rather shouty yet not particularly well detailed mids and bizarrely (I am still trying to work out how they managed this), that combined with a slow, largish and sloppy ‘fart cannon-ish’ bass. It seems that the lower you go, the SA5K offers less atticulation. It’s something that appears superficially detailed, but only in areas where detail is not crucial, and furthermore offers much less in the way of overall musical cohesion than the other aforementioned phones. On the face of it, enjoyable on a casual level, especially with more beat-based music. For critical listening and actual high fidelity use, two thumbs, two toes and any other appendage I can point down… for that purpose, the Beyerdynamic DT880 for example makes mincemeat of these at half the price.

 

[Elephas]

Ah, I see, my mistake.

I used to own the 2500, and thought that it had OK details. To me, it seemed to achieve its level of details with artificial brightness. It became harsh and sibilant more readily than any other headphone I use, including the SA5000.

I also use the HD650, K701, W2002 and DT880-'03. In each case except the W2002, with recabled versions. I don't consider the SA5000 to be inferior to these other headphones.

BTW, I thought the post was nicely descriptive, though a bit much in terms of attitude. So people who like the SA5000 are "people who have no real concept of what high end audio means?"

I think that people should say what they will about the headphones, but leave the personal attacks out.

I don't understand what "consumer tuning" means. I assume all these headphones are marketed for consumer use at home. Some might be marketed as "Pro," "Studio," or "DJ" use, but there's nothing stopping us from using them at home.

The SA5000 has its weaknesses, of course, along with everything other headphone I've heard. I use the SA5000 exclusively with electronica music, where I think its strengths are emphasized and weaknesses minimized.