[Rockwell75]

I'm definitely leaning more and more the same way in terms of dynamic drivers vs ba's and in general just preferring the more natural timbre of dynamics over the sharper cleaner sound of ba's.

Haven't actually heard much estat iems yet though and the one I did didn't really do anything specifically to convince me that estats were necessary (ee valk mki). On the other hand, the dynamic driver tweeter of the z1r did something I thought was fairly unique, which again just sort of leans me towards dd's in general.

Edit: actually I heard the fir m5 too at some point which I thought was good, but again the estats specifically there didn't really seem necessary over treble I have heard elsewhere.

I've only heard the Elysium and Bravado Mkii...but based on those I'm very excited about the future of e-stat highs. I don't think they quite had it figured out in the Valk & Bravado Mk i for what it's worth. I agree with you about the treble in the Z1R-- it was very fast and natural and superior to any BA treble I've heard. When I had Z1R alongside Ely I was able to compare their respective treble responses and Ely's treble was a clear step up from that of the Z1R to my ears-- quicker, cleaner and just as natural.

 

[Rockwell75]

Don't make me have Allen Wrench come in here and adjust this thread!!!

lol ok that one went over my head

 

[chickenmcnug]

I think it's time to introduce some French music into your life @Rockwell75 , I think you will like this as well

 

[Mehran]

I've only heard the Elysium and Bravado Mkii...but based on those I'm very excited about the future of e-stat highs. I don't think they quite had it figured out in the Valk & Bravado Mk i for what it's worth. I agree with you about the treble in the Z1R-- it was very fast and natural and superior to any BA treble I've heard. When I had Z1R alongside Ely I was able to compare their respective treble responses and Ely's treble was a clear step up from that of the Z1R to my ears-- quicker, cleaner and just as natural.

The Mest has EST for the treble too.
I prefer other drives to BA too. Especially in the mids . I liked the Solaris mids better than the LX, so far it has been a somewhat underwhelming after Elysium and Fourte. But they say it benefits form burn in a lot so I'm not judging it for now.

 

[Rockwell75]

The Mest has EST for the treble too.
I prefer other drives to BA too. Especially in the mids . I liked the Solaris mids better than the LX, so far it has been a somewhat underwhelming after Elysium and Fourte. But they say it benefits form burn in a lot so I'm not judging it for now.

I forgot about the MEST...the MEST's weak link was its rather simulated sounding mid-range...I think this may have kept me from really getting the most out of the highs.

Honestly the LX is getting a bit long in the tooth...I had it alongside the Solaris for a few months last year and great as LX was in some select situations the Solaris was far and away the better all rounder for me. While I know I'd be drawn and quartered in some places for saying this but I dare say the LX has nothing on the Dorado for me at this point either. If they'd release a MKii LX with doubles of their new W9s for the mids and lows and the same e-stats as the Odin for highs...then that could be a serious contender imho.

 

[Mehran]

I forgot about the MEST...the MEST's weak link was its rather simulated sounding mid-range...I think this may have kept me from really getting the most out of the highs.

Honestly the LX is getting a bit long in the tooth...I had it alongside the Solaris for a few months last year and great as LX was in some select situations the Solaris was far and away the better all rounder for me. While I know I'd be drawn and quartered in some places for saying this but I dare say the LX has nothing on the Dorado for me at this point either. If they'd release a MKii LX with doubles of their new W9s for the mids and lows and the same e-stats as the Odin for highs...then that could be a serious contender imho.

Yeah , if I were to choose between Solaris and LX for my sole IEM, it'd definitely be the Solaris maybe even over Fourte and Elysium too.

 

[mashuto]

I've only heard the Elysium and Bravado Mkii...but based on those I'm very excited about the future of e-stat highs. I don't think they quite had it figured out in the Valk & Bravado Mk i for what it's worth. I agree with you about the treble in the Z1R-- it was very fast and natural and superior to any BA treble I've heard. When I had Z1R alongside Ely I was able to compare their respective treble responses and Ely's treble was a clear step up from that of the Z1R to my ears-- quicker, cleaner and just as natural.

My guess is that as with a lot of things it likely comes down to implementation and not necessarily just the technology used. I have certainly heard DDs used in a way that just didn't satisfy what I was personally looking for (Solaris happened to be one, and the custom art aaw 4+2 as another recent example). And if the trailli crowd is to be believed through the hype, the ba's used for bass are apparently quite good and seem to satisfy that crowd.

Still always good to have more choices and different technologies iem makers can play with.

 

[Rockwell75]

Yeah , if I were to choose between Solaris and LX for my sole IEM, it'd definitely be the Solaris maybe even over Fourte and Elysium too.

100% I actually thought about this lots during my time with Solaris-- it's true strength is its versatility. You can pinpoint any one thing about it and find another IEM that does that particular thing better but I'm not sure if I've yet heard a better all rounder, that is an IEM that does "everything" as well as the Solaris does. For what it's worth I'm referring to the OG/SE Solari as I have limited experience with the 2020 and I know it has criticisms that don't seem to extend to earlier/later models. The OG/SE Solaris is one of the truly great IEMs of the last few years. I'll be receiving the LE on loan soon and if it impresses me enough I may wind up buying one.

My guess is that as with a lot of things it likely comes down to implementation and not necessarily just the technology used. I have certainly heard DDs used in a way that just didn't satisfy what I was personally looking for (Solaris happened to be one, and the custom art aaw 4+2 as another recent example). And if the trailli crowd is to be believed through the hype, the ba's used for bass are apparently quite good and seem to satisfy that crowd.

Still always good to have more choices and different technologies iem makers can play with.

I can't comment on Trailli as I haven't heard it but my main thing lately is dynamic mids and I'm firmly in the "I'll believe it when I hear it" camp when it comes to accepting that Traill's BA mids can equal or surpass the (so far in my experience) unequalled texture of the midrange of my Elysium through the Shanling M8. On that note how are you liking the Jolene? That's another IEM I'll have a firm eye on once the uni becomes available.

 

[Ace Bee]

Dorado arrived today thanks to @Rockwell75 ... I sent him my initial impressions but I'll share them here too..

"Alright... I got home and quickly opened them and tried about 1 min of a song on the ZX507.. Hania Rani playing her modern classical piano and when the bass came in I thought, oh oh.. I don't think I'm going to like these so much.. The piano sounded good but the bass was a bit wooly.. But 1 minute of a song with a bass that's pretty wooly on most of everything isn't enough... Took my daughter to her violin lesson, got home and had supper.....
So I just spent the better part of the last 40 mins listening with the M8... These are the strangest iems I've ever heard and they are completely seductive, and I mean seductive.. song after song, I couldn't stop listening. There's not only little things I had never heard before, not even with the Elysium, but there is a romance to the mids that is both full and warm but with an odd ring of clarity that kind of baffles me. I keep hearing this warmth and expect bleed or occlusion but there's also a crystal clarity coming through... The really deep bass is about the only weakness for me because the Bravado2 is cleaner and has a bit more extension but I should have my Bravado2 back tomorrow to confirm. It's just a little less defined and looser than I remember on some songs. I'll do a song by song analysis at some point.
I kept trying different songs and vocals are so delicately sweet, like honey.
Dire Straits' "Your Latest Trick" is pretty close to as good as I've ever heard the song with some details I've never noticed before.. I imagine they are there with the Elysium but they just come through because of the Dorado tuning.. gorgeous
I finished off with "The Maker" by Daniel Lanois as I compared the Elysium and the 3DT with that song and commented how good it sounded with the 3DT.. The fretless bass is weirdly in my head and pans a bit left to right.. not the best but Daniel's voice is as good as I've heard it. It's an intimate stage with some good spatial cues but some sounds are really up close like in this song.. The high hats though sound just perfect..
I decided to try the 3dt just to refresh my reference... it sounded well, not so good... Seriously, the romance is gone, the stage is back and seemingly unengaging and his voice is kind of thin and lifeless in comparison.
What a strange strange iem.. If an iem could embody the female principle it's the Dorado 2020.
I wondered if I could make a choice between the Dorado and the Bravado but they are so different.

I'll have to compare tomorrow against the Bravado2. The Bravado2 does (from memory) have "better" bass in terms of tightness and cleanliness but I think in comparison, the rest of the tuning is going to be vanilla, safe and missing that lure of the succubus."

When asked about what I meant by the female principle I wrote:

"
I think by female principle I am referencing a sense of the duality as in the relationship between Captain Kirk and the Green Woman dancing for him. teehee...
It's the Shakti, the action, to Shiva, the existence of being...
If the U12t is the baseline of existence, it is still unmoved.. The Dorado is the movement, the meaning behind the form, the idea put into action.. It's like a Tibetan Thangka. The U12t is the painting, the form of the art, the Dorado is how the form, which of itself is made of pigments on canvas or skin, is given meaning and movement in the ideas and feelings ..
The Captain Kirk/Green Woman is the more physical expression, in the seductive dance of procreation..

Maybe that's reading too much into it all but I've never had an iem give me these thoughts about it.. ha ha.."


-- I'll listen more this evening and get acclimated over the next couple days then try a bit of a write up with reference to a few specific songs. At the moment these aren't the combination of reference and beauty that the Elysium has but the Dorado's are just so alluring in some mysterious way that I haven't really reacted to in the same way with any iem.. I did try a Rolf Lislevand baroque album with lutes and other plucked instruments and they brought something very different than I have ever heard but it was not at all like the purity of the Elysium..

How does the Bravado Mk.II compare with the 3DT regarding mids, stage, and imaging? I guess notes will be better dimensional on Bravado Mk.II because of BA drivers.

 

[mashuto]

On that note how are you liking the Jolene? That's another IEM I'll have a firm eye on once the uni becomes available.

Loving it. I'm a sucker for good bass, and while I unfortunately can't compare to what I would consider my previous bass quality benchmark (the z1r) I think it has the best quality bass I have heard in an iem. Not to say it's the star of the show because it's definitely not what I would call a bassy signature, though maybe a gentle downward slope (with tuning ability from the bass pod, I have been at full).

It's also super natural and coherent which I think says a lot for a ridiculous 12 driver iem.

It's not a sound that is hyper etched or what I guess could be called clarity. But it's again just smooth and natural.

Really really enjoying them and I'm definitely in that mind space where I want to find excuses to listen to music to get more time with them.

 

[Rockwell75]

Loving it. I'm a sucker for good bass, and while I unfortunately can't compare to what I would consider my previous bass quality benchmark (the z1r) I think it has the best quality bass I have heard in an iem. Not to say it's the star of the show because it's definitely not what I would call a bassy signature, though maybe a gentle downward slope (with tuning ability from the bass pod, I have been at full).

It's also super natural and coherent which I think says a lot for a ridiculous 12 driver iem.

It's not a sound that is hyper etched or what I guess could be called clarity. But it's again just smooth and natural.

Really really enjoying them and I'm definitely in that mind space where I want to find excuses to listen to music to get more time with them.

Awesome I hope they hurry up and release a uni. I've cancelled my Isabelleae order for the time being but I will be able to demo one sometime this week and if I like it enough I'll re-order.

 

[mashuto]

Awesome I hope they hurry up and release a uni. I've cancelled my Isabelleae order for the time being but I will be able to demo one sometime this week and if I like it enough I'll re-order.

I cancelled my Isabellae preorder too, in part because since I got the Jolene back I wonder if how much more I really need. Not to mention the brighter descriptions just don't seem to be my cup of tea.

I will say though that the universal demo I had of the Jolene was... Chunky to say the least. Assuming the eventual universal will be the same size, they are rather large. Though if you did ok with the z1r, these will probably be ok since they are a bit more ergonomically shaped, just also really thick.

 

[snapandslide]

Some great discussion the last few pages around different drivers and config. And I can echo a lot of the feelings and comments. I realise I like bass. It doesn't need to be slammin' all the time, but I don't know if I can survive with a non DD and that is why I have some fascination to try the Triallii - how can the bass be that good from 2 BAs!?! My other realisation is, I think I may be a bit of a treble head - before owning the Z1Rs and the Odins, I didn't think I would be! Both of the configs have such amazing treble quality, they have to be heard. The more we have e-stats trickling down the food chain, the better.

The only thing that leaves me not having tried is a non BA mid centric IEM. I'll tackle the Elysium at some point I guess, but I don't feel I've been lacking in the mids. They may be the least important out of the three sound domains at the moment in my IEM journey.

What I muse over is - will we be seeing TOTLs in 2022 in multiple driver configs with no BAs I wonder.

 

[Rockwell75]

Some great discussion the last few pages around different drivers and config. And I can echo a lot of the feelings and comments. I realise I like bass. It doesn't need to be slammin' all the time, but I don't know if I can survive with a non DD and that is why I have some fascination to try the Triallii - how can the bass be that good from 2 BAs!?! My other realisation is, I think I may be a bit of a treble head - before owning the Z1Rs and the Odins, I didn't think I would be! Both of the configs have such amazing treble quality, they have to be heard. The more we have e-stats trickling down the food chain, the better.

The only thing that leaves me not having tried is a non BA mid centric IEM. I'll tackle the Elysium at some point I guess, but I don't feel I've been lacking in the mids. They may be the least important out of the three sound domains at the moment in my IEM journey.

I think Elysium might surprise you...though I'd recommend getting a more powerful source. I haven't heard great things from anyone who's heard it through the 1A.

What I muse over is - will we be seeing TOTLs in 2022 in multiple driver configs with no BAs I wonder.

A Sony IER Z1R with the BA taken out and the DD doing the mids and lows or an LX MKii with 2 DDs doing the mids & lows + e stats doing the highs...would probably be instant blind buys from me for that exact reason.

 

[snapandslide]

I think Elysium might surprise you...though I'd recommend getting a more powerful source. I haven't heard great things from anyone who's heard it through the 1A.



A Sony IER Z1R with the BA taken out and the DD doing the mids and lows or an LX MKii with 2 DDs doing the mids & lots + e stats doing the highs...would probably be instant blind buys from me for that exact reason.

One reason I'm not considering the Elysium yet - I doubt the 1A is powerful enough and I have yet to read much with it as a pairing with the W2.

Would be interesting to see the EE DDs used as a mids, definitely got to have potential!